Metagame, Gimmicks, and Theory

[Jerodak]

I'd like to make a proposition.

I don't want to clutter up the Q&A thread with this stuff but I figured it may be a good idea to look over some of the more gimmicky and theorycrafty stuff related to Bowser. This thread has two major purposes, the first is to be a fun and experimental thread where we take a hard look over the character and look for any possible things which we may have overlooked so far in the metagame. At the same time, things discovered here, if any, which are confirmed will be added to the Bowser Encyclopedia.

I figured that players might see the Encyclopedia thread as a discussion thread, which is true but I want to keep it as much as possible to a purely factual discussion and let players channel all creative energies here to this thread which will be a more theory-based and experimental discussion.

For example, I really think we might benefit greatly if we look further into all the different ways Bowser can shift his hurtbox around. Yes, we all know about Forward Smash but how about Forward tilt? I've only seen a few remarks on that one. How about Up smash? I've only seen a few remarks there as well, did you know that sliding up smash goes underneath most short hops? Aren't most forward and back airs blind underneath the character? Furthermore, who would expect the big guy to be able to fit his massive frame under them when they tried to space a short-hopped aerial? How many people know that he can? Seems like a pretty viable mix-up there, of course I'm sure most of the experienced players know this and probably use it already but what about the newer and less experienced players? I have not seen any documentation on it though so I can't know for sure if this is really a known fact. Therein lies one of the major hurdles for new mains to this character, which I fully intend to remedy though this thread as well as the encyclopedia thread.

I think it might be best to actually use this thread as more of a hub than the main area of discussion. We could use Skype to actually discuss things which would be faster and a bit cleaner overall since Things could be posted neatly here instead of players having to sift through everything on their own; what do you guys think about that?

We could compile stuff here cleanly and maybe post the logs from Skype as well. Then maybe some light discussion here in the thread while letting people propose new topics for Skype discussion. Oz seems good at organizing Skype discussions so I could put him in charge of getting everyone together then anyone that wants to contribute just joins in and we chat.

By the way. Anyone who is interested in this would just apply by PMing me their Skype names and I'll compile the list together so we can get the group started.

Currently Registered Participants​

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Oz​

EXST​

 

[Jerodak]

I'd like to add on that new Bowser mains would naturally be welcome to join in as well. After all, I'm actually somewhat new myself.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Thanks for creating this thread, Jerodak. I cast my vote to Fire Breath. ^-^

I'm also curious of the possibility of further advancing Bowser's metagame. Although I do not main Bowser, I've recently became interested in finding out more after experimenting with the character a bit as well as after lurking these boards for awhile. It is difficult for me to find in-depth discussions regarding Fire Breath's practicality in a competitive setting. Even with SSBB nearing its sixth year since its release, I believe Bowser may have some potential left. ^-^

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Oi, welcome aboard. Hope you can stay a while, if you're actually interested.

Anyway, I voted for Hurtbox Manipulation, because it's really interesting how Bowser can benefit from shifting his hurtbox around, when his hurtbox is one of his biggest problems (being a huge target). Also how it can improve his punishing game with deceptive attacks, like the great F-Smash.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Thanks for the greetings, Oz! ^-^

Well, to expand on my first post, I thought Fire Breath should be looked on or even utiized more because I believe there may be some other uses for it. For superficial reasons, Bowser is just not Bowser without his iconic projectile move in play, but I digress. I'm not sure how much flame canceling benefits Bowser's metagame back in Melee, but with that absent here in SSBB there must other ways Fire Breath can be used. I'm a firm believer that many, if not, all projectiles in Smash have a purpose; even Mario's simple fireballs are applied competitively. ^-^

 

[Jerodak]

Welcome to the boards Zhu and infact you are right, Firebreath is recognized as a useful tool in certain situations. It's not an easy projectile to use, but it works fairly well as a mix-up option and it can help you land on the stage thanks to wavebouncing. Of course, it's also a pretty useful tool for gimping. It also sees some use as a move refresher and it's ok as a spacing tool. Also, thanks to the properties of it, you can firebreath through things that most projectiles cannot such as the statues in castle siege.

I certainly agree that there may be more situations where it could see some use especially when wavebouced or b-reversed.

 

[Cassius.]

voted for ledgeplay, because between that and being in the air, that's where Bowser suffers the most.

 

[Fuujin]

Limit why do you still use this bad character?

 

[Cassius.]

Why do you still use that bad character

 

[Jerodak]

Looks like first up will be ledgeplay which won by 1 vote, since it appears we have a decent number of people who cast votes I think we would be able to run a rather nice group discussion. If you need my Skype name feel free to PM me or OZ for it and we can swap details so that I can get a group together. Due to a few minor set-backs I may not be around as much as I would like to be but I will do my best to make sure that these discussions happen even if it means you guys carry on without me. I figure it may be best to organize a schedule based on what time folks would be able to participate. I'll work on finding slots that work for everyone but in the worst case scenario if you miss a session, you'll still at least be able to scroll through it and the gist of everything will be compiled here or perhaps somewhere in the encyclopedia if there isn't enough room in this thread.

Anyway, if you'd like to participate, just PM me with skype contact and I'll put you down on the list.

By the way, don't worry if what you voted for didn't make it this time, anything which was voted on has priority so I'll make sure it's covered, we can probably decide on that after the ledgeplay discussion.