Meta Knight overview 1.1.5 + The future

[BLKfrog]

(Note that this thread is NOT a good place to learn new stuff if you just recently picked up Meta Knight, go learn the basics and mentality of meta knight first is my advice.)

Hi

This is going to be a very late thread since the last patch came out like a month ago.
If you played meta knight at a reasonably high level you do know how stupid the up air strings were and how easy stocks were taken if you could find openings in a consistent manner. 1.1.5 happened and it was a dark day for us. If you dropped meta knight after the patch, its understandable. If you stuck with him like i did, props.

Lets talk about the changes.

Meta Knight 10:00

• Uair:
  • Damage: 5 -> 4
  • Angle: 78/78/60 -> 69/69/52
  • SDI Multiplier: 1.0 -> 1.5
• Fair Landing Lag: 20F -> 16F

Lets start with damage: 5 -> 4
This is a rather big nerf because not only does it do less damage, knockback lowered also means knockback reduction which basically means that doing up air strings requires ALOT of fastfalling while mid air. There is a bright side to this nerf tho, up air to up b can work at later %'s IF THE OPPONENT DOESN'T DI

Angle: 78/78/60 -> 69/69/52

When i saw this one i know the up air string was done for. The angle that opponent is sent to is just way too far for mk to follow. Please note that if floaty charachters like Peach, olimar, Rosalina etc. . . Can still be hit by the up air string like pre patch if they DO NOT DI.

SDI Multiplier: 1.0 -> 1.5

''If they nerfed the angle, what is the point in making it easier to SDI if you fall out anyway?'' Thats what i thought at first but there is a actual reason behind this. Pre patch if you di'ed the up air string it wouldn't matter at all because you weren't sent far enough to escape the combo, a good meta knight would always follow the DI.
Now if you SDI you always get out of the combo, i will get into 1.1.5 combos later on.

• • Fair Landing Lag: 20F -> 16F
  • • 
      
    • (Semi salt incoming) What even is this buff? it isn't positive on shield, spacing it makes no sense whatsoever since the landing lag was reduced so it was meant to stop incoming ground attacks, right? Forward smash does this job WAY WAY WAY better. ''But hold on Azreal, what about landing?'' Nair does this better, and if i find myself having trouble landing i just down b to the ledge or behind my opponent (at a distance that it is NOT punishable) so no, its not a landing option. It could be used as a mixup but why do that when you get punished most of the time (I know this out of experience) the only use i found for this move is a 0% combo. fast fall fair (make sure you hit all 3 hits) into dash attack in whatever you want out of a dash attack, up tilt for example.
    • Buffs i wanted to see

Neutral B Tornado
When i saw the nerfs i was expecting some crazy buff because lets be real, meta knights neutral was very limited and was mainly focused on one goal and he didn't have toooo many strong mixups. Everyone was afraid to get dash attacked so they shielded, in conclusion we grabbed them and did our really strong throw followups. But now our opponents will probably shield less which means our pressure isn't as threating anymore. So i expected a tornado buff, put your pitchforks down please. With all the end lag that tornado has i think that this move deserves a bit more shield damage and maybe 2-4% more damage. It would even out the nerfs a bit.

Up throw

Again, but your pitchforks down.

I know that back throw is a kill throw kinda. it only kills at like 140% on midweights on the edge of FD, not even talking about battlefield. I had a local practice with a bunch of friends last week, i was having a tight match with a roy main. It was really a tight battle, i had 120% so thats a lot of rage. i did up throw on FD he was at 150% and it did NOT end the stock. If they buffed his up throw to like the same knockback kirby's up throw does, meta knight would almost easily stay in the same tier as the last patch.

(This one is not needed but i think i should talk about it)

Down Smash

How many times did you finish off a stock with down smash? Exactly.
The first hit is absolutely useless. it probably doesn't even kill at 150.
I sometimes seriously think that they just forgot that the first hit should link into the second one.
If that got fixed it wouldn't change a whole lot, but i do think its kind of a useless smash attack.




Post Patch new combos (Only combos that came new with the patch)

Mid to High % possible mixup combos (DI OUT)

Dash attack -> up air (how many depends on %, weight and DI) -> airdodge read -> fair
Dash attack -> up air (how many depends on %, weight and DI) -> airdodge read -> Down b slash
Dash attack -> up air (how many depends on %, weight and DI) -> Double jump read -> Down b slash
Dash attack -> One up air -> Aerial read -> fast fall (before the oppnent throws the attack out) up smash

High % kill combos (These are mostly mixups in very specific situations)

(Grounded opponents)
Fast fall up air (follow di) If you can land another up air, do so and follow up with an up B. And if you can't just follow up with an up b or airdodge read up air Up b.

(Airborne opponents)

Up air -> up b (Still works on fast fallers/midweights/heavyweights regardless of DI from about 80%)
Up air -> air dodge read -> Down b slash

I think you are getting the idea of where i am getting at.



The future of Meta knight

Is meta knight still viable?

Ofcourse, meta knight still has an amazing offstage game and has a very strong punish game, has multijumps, an amazing forward smash and much more.

Is Meta Knight Top tier?

Sadly, i do not think so. He doesn't have anything that is really broken nor a mechanic that stands together with the rest of the top tiers.

Were the nerfs deserved?

I am totally fine with the nerfs. Where my problem lies is that bayonetta, rosalina and yes Cloud didn't get their broken mechanics removed. Its so weird that the patch team does not see this. The tournament where Abadango vs nairo happened in Japan Sakurai saw Zero Suit Samus vs Meta Knight zero to deathing eachother every single game, i'll leave it to you who got touched this patch after the tournament. My opinion on this is: If you are not taking out all the broken mechanics then what is the point of taking away just two of the bunch? Either keep them all and buff all the low to mid tiers and give them own strong mechanics, or just nerf em all so the game actually gets balanced. So final answer is, if everyone got nerfed i would've been okay with it.

That wraps it up for now.

Aight later Star Warriors

 

[RosalinA]

I still personnaly think MK is still top 10, and he can still do amazing things. I don't think people understand that we can still kill them at 80% with dash attack to up b. We still also have the best or atlest one of the top 3 best recoverys in the game with 6 jumps and a variety of recovery options. We still also have results against some of the best players thanks to Abadango beating Dabuz, Tyrant, and MK Leo all doing solid work. JBand will eventually return as well.
Go here to see what combos Mega Knight can still do (without teching of course):
https://m.youtube.com/user/MrAmadeusGames/videos?shelf_id=1&sort=dd&view=0

 

[metanight1311]

I only say metaknight wont get buffed becuase imo there is a slim chance we will even get a patch. Deep down, everyone may want one (mainly to nerf bayonetta or something), but i doubt we will get one. If a new patch is released, and MK gets buffed, I would like to see mabye 1 or 2 less ending lag on d-air or n-air. Also, in response the RosalinA, I think that at the absolute minumum, MK would be the gatekeeper for solo viable mains

 

[RosalinA]

In response the RosalinA, I think that at the absolute minumum, MK would be the gatekeeper for solo viable mains

And what would you say is the maximum? By the way is there a spot where you can put 'L"I don't think there will be another patch so there will be no buffs or nerfs" on the voting poll, because that's my opinion.

 

[metanight1311]

At max, I would say that MK would stay at top tier in 10th place. However, MK did get his u-air nerf, which despite what we as MK mains may say, it would still affect his placement on the tier list. So I usually identify MK as the gatekeeper, which is why I didn't think of stating what he would be a max.

 

[RosalinA]

At max, I would say that MK would stay at top tier in 10th place. However, MK did get his u-air nerf, which despite what we as MK mains may say, it would still affect his placement on the tier list. So I usually identify MK as the gatekeeper, which is why I didn't think of stating what he would be a max.

Did you look at the combos MK could still do in the video I posted? Those are ith SDI by the way. I know those are on the Greninja levels of combos, but if you look at what people like Abadango and MK Leo have done with MK in the past, it does seem very possible that we could see combos like those done in the future.

 

[metanight1311]

Do you mean the videos by MrAmadeusGames? I saw them. They look look like good combos, but they wont move forward if they aren't used in tournaments. If those vids arent what you mean, then my bad.

 

[RosalinA]

Do you mean the videos by MrAmadeusGames? I saw them. They look look like good combos, but they wont move forward if they aren't used in tournaments. If those vids arent what you mean, then my bad.

No they are. I do know MK leo does sometimes use those combos as well as Tyrant in tournament, like when Tyrant faced Void. It didn't get as complex, but the basics of the combos were there, usually when a fast fall back air was involved.

 

[metanight1311]

True. The combos are more or less stringing together things we already know and use (ex: fasfall b-air and u-airstrings). Therefore, we just need to get the "connecting from one combo to the next" timing right.

 

[Amadeus9]

Wait you want fsmash nerfed or something? That's really the only thing I'm taking from this post

 

[RosalinA]

Wait you want fsmash nerfed or something? That's really the only thing I'm taking from this post

No. I think he's just saying that forward smash would be the next thing to be nerfed considering how good it is.

 

[metanight1311]

I wouldn't ay we would be screwed if f-smash got nerfed, cause MK still has other good moves, but we would not be happy if it got nerfed to the point of it being useless

 

[RosalinA]

I wouldn't ay we would be screwed if f-smash got nerfed, cause MK still has other good moves, but we would not be happy if it got nerfed to the point of it being useless

Yeah, the only other thing I can think of off the top of my head is Sakurai nerfing his grabs, most notably his forward throw, and his dash attack. If they hit those spots in certain ways it's down to mid tier for us.

 

[metanight1311]

all he would have after that is an shuttle loop(which if his dash attack and throws get nerfed, won't help much) and his d-tilt being able to trip.

 

[Jamurai]

MK is pretty much already mid tier (like the majority of the cast), the balance is so close in this game that bollocking a bait-and-punish character's main damage-racking and combo move has a massive effect on where they are in the grand scheme of things. He's much more honest now but at least he still has a few powerful tools in Shuttle Loop, Fsmash, Dtilt, and his offstage game (Bair in particular).

It's not just the death combo that he lost, despite that being what the aim was, and being what everyone focuses on. Uair doesn't even combo into itself at low %s anymore. The Uair > Bair string can be beaten by like frame 5 aerials now. Uair's side hitboxes no longer combo into Up-B at high %s. His reward off of this move was severely gutted, which for a whiff-punish-based character is an enormous deal.

If Shuttle Loop gets nerfed he is in BIG trouble, although I seriously doubt this will happen as he is now well-balanced. Fsmash honestly should have been nerfed ages ago but we'll probably keep it thankfully. If anything it makes sense to give him a couple more small compensation buffs, preferably to his footsies game (Dtilt range pls).

 

[RosalinA]

MK is pretty much already mid tier (like the majority of the cast), the balance is so close in this game that bollocking a bait-and-punish character's main damage-racking and combo move has a massive effect on where they are in the grand scheme of things. He's much more honest now but at least he still has a few powerful tools in Shuttle Loop, Fsmash, Dtilt, and his offstage game (Bair in particular).

It's not just the death combo that he lost, despite that being what the aim was, and being what everyone focuses on. Uair doesn't even combo into itself at low %s anymore. The Uair > Bair string can be beaten by like frame 5 aerials now. Uair's side hitboxes no longer combo into Up-B at high %s. His reward off of this move was severely gutted, which for a whiff-punish-based character is an enormous deal.

If Shuttle Loop gets nerfed he is in BIG trouble, although I seriously doubt this will happen as he is now well-balanced. Fsmash honestly should have been nerfed ages ago but we'll probably keep it thankfully. If anything it makes sense to give him a couple more small compensation buffs, preferably to his footsies game (Dtilt range pls).

How low, because I can still get 3 off with SDI at around 30-40%, and I can still combo it into back air at early percents easily. I don't think he's mid tier, still top tier, but lower, high tier at the worst, but I don't think that. His match-up with Rosa being her only really hard matchup definitly gives us an edge, not to me tion solid tournamnet results with MK Leo and Tyrant.

 

[Drakniss]

Guys I am new here and I have been making Meta Knight in Brawl for 5 without knowing he is broken. In Sm4sh, I am trying to stay loyal to him but can't kill for nuts. I got the game a month before and patched it as soon as I got it. I only am able to use f-smash and individual shuttle loops to win.

 

[Jamurai]

How low, because I can still get 3 off with SDI at around 30-40%, and I can still combo it into back air at early percents easily. I don't think he's mid tier, still top tier, but lower, high tier at the worst, but I don't think that. His match-up with Rosa being her only really hard matchup definitly gives us an edge, not to me tion solid tournamnet results with MK Leo and Tyrant.

I'm talking super low, like 5%+. The optimal low-% punish pre-patch was so use dash attack or Dthrow, into short hop and fast fall Uairs times six into Shuttle Loop for 42% or something, because Uair comboed into itself always. Now with less damage, pretty sure it can be airdodged out of if you try that from 0% (although this leads to traps so it's not all bad). As for Bair, throw > DA > Uair > Bair could be beaten by frame 3 aerials after the Uair pre-patch and now with less damage on Uair, slower aerials can beat it out as well. It could always be airdodged out of. I got it on someone the other day too, it still works as an unexpected mixup if you've conditioned them not to airdodge, but it's not a true combo and never has been.

It's too early to definitively call where he is one way or another, half the cast flails about wildly in people's tier lists even if they haven't been patched. 1.1.5 MK is like a new character entering the fray. For the record, Rosa's MU with Cloud is around about as bad as hers with MK, and Cloud is obviously much easier to use/secondary so our would-be top level niche is outclassed anyway. It's nice to have for MK mains though.

Guys I am new here and I have been making Meta Knight in Brawl for 5 without knowing he is broken. In Sm4sh, I am trying to stay loyal to him but can't kill for nuts. I got the game a month before and patched it as soon as I got it. I only am able to use f-smash and individual shuttle loops to win.

MK actually has high kill power and it's one of his main draws. Shuttle Loop, Fsmash, Usmash, Bair and Dimensional Cape are all strong individual kill moves. He also has other kill options at high rage like Tornado, early hit Nair, and Ftilt at the edge.

• Shuttle Loop can be set up at kill % by dash attack (with poor DI), Uair, or Dtilt by running and tech chasing them. It can also be used out of shield, and also catches people hanging on the ledge with no invuln from onstage.
• Usmash is a great anti-air, good for finishing off jumpy characters like Peach or ZSS.
• Bair is a great hard punish offstage and scales ridiculously well with rage. You can set it up by throwing them offstage. Dthrow > run > react to airdodge > RAR Bair is something powerful I've been using a fair bit recently.
• DCape can also be set up by Dtilt and is an unexpected kill against jab-, smash- or projectile-happy opponents.

 

[BLKfrog]

Wait you want fsmash nerfed or something? That's really the only thing I'm taking from this post

No ofcourse not.
It was just a poll for future possible nerfs.
And the way you are showing the frame data of fsmash you dont understand the power of it. it barely has any ending lag. Please do your research before you say something thank you.

 

[MKchouy]

I feel the patch if anything made MK more unbalanced, at least in his MU spread.

His MU with Rosa is arguably even better now, due to fair ridding Luma so easily and it being safer to throw out. He still bodies a lot of floaty characters like Peach and Kirby, except now he can use fair a bit more in neutral. But now characters that were likely even MUs such as Fox or Bayo are much harder.

Overall he was still nerfed, but in terms of his MU spread he's actually probably more unbalanced than prepatch.

I feel he's much more viable as a counterpick than a solo main which kinda sucks when Cloud is the optimal secondary for almost every situation.

 

[warionumbah2]

Using MK as a CP is such a waste of time. I don't think MK will get anything(or lose anything), the devs probably think the current MK is ok sadly. :/

 

[BLKfrog]

I feel the patch if anything made MK more unbalanced, at least in his MU spread.

His MU with Rosa is arguably even better now, due to fair ridding Luma so easily and it being safer to throw out. He still bodies a lot of floaty characters like Peach and Kirby, except now he can use fair a bit more in neutral. But now characters that were likely even MUs such as Fox or Bayo are much harder.

Overall he was still nerfed, but in terms of his MU spread he's actually probably more unbalanced than prepatch.

I feel he's much more viable as a counterpick than a solo main which kinda sucks when Cloud is the optimal secondary for almost every situation.

Meta knight only wrecks the floaty if the opponent does NOT di or di away as i said. Meta knight is anything but unbalanced now. I still think that meta knight is solo mainable but not in 1.1.5 because of bayonetta, maybe next patch. Against rosalina you are 90% of the time way more rewarded with side b since fair has low knockback and will probably not kill luma, so fair didnt change much in the rosa mu since fsmash does the zoning game way better as i stated. Side b is the optimal way to go if you want to finish off luma but please note that you can NOT use side at high % because rosa will finish you off with up smash at high %

 

[Freakzoid9000MS]

Well it seems like people are still over exaggerating about MK. It's kinda sad tbh.

 

[metanight1311]

Well it seems like people are still over exaggerating about MK. It's kinda sad tbh.

Do you think he is being over-exaggerated in two ways? Some people(myself included) think that at best MK barely changed. Others say he is now mid-tier.

 

[Freakzoid9000MS]

People are over exaggerating in many ways. One main thing that triggered me to write this post is that people here are saying MK is unbalanced in his current state. Well, let me ask those MK players a question. Did you find it was balanced for your opponent to die at 20% because they made a simple mistake in neutral? I know I didn't and you guys probably didn't either I'm assuming. Being able to do that in every MU destroys the purpose of actually learning MUs which then leads to bad game design and it forms toxic in the community. Now that MK is more honest of a character in 1.1.5, people are calling him more unbalanced than he was prepatch. This just causes me to sigh in disbelief because of how wrong they are.

The second main over exaggeration and misconception by many it seems is the Uair combos. First off, the Uair combos still work. They are just more difficult to pull off by requiring more precise and faster inputs, the opponent has to be at lower %s like 15-30%, and they require you to have full aerial momentum so that you can follow the opponent's DI. With all this in mind, the opponent cannot DI or SDI out of the combos and you should be able to get around 40% or so on the opponent. Floaty, light, and big characters can get taken off the top with the Uair string to UpB regardless of the opponent's DI unless you do the combo at too early or too late of %s. Most mid weights and fast fallers won't die off the top because of all the fast falling Uairs you have to do, but you should still get huge damage off on them.

Finally, I feel that when people learn how to do the new Uair combos, people will see MK as top 15 again rather than mid tier. Imo, MK is between 7-11 on the tier list but I'll go as low as 14th.

 

[MKchouy]

Don't mix up my words, I'm saying his MU spread is more unbalanced now than it was prepatch, not his overall character. Meaning he is better suited as a counterpick character than a solo main, which is sad because prepatch he was a great solo main character.

With the death combo, I honestly had no problem with it. I thought the concept of a heavy punishing character was quite cool. I suppose that's why I don't mind Bayonetta. Not that MK's death combo was particularly difficult, but it was a combo unique to MK players that people randomly playing the character couldn't perform, which I thought was cool.

There's loads of other jank in the game as well, I didn't feel bad about the death combo.

Arguing about his tier placement is a moot point. I'm saying the idea of a character with a more even MU spread and a death combo is probably "healthier" for the game than how he is now as a counterpick character (who is outclassed by the easier to use and better character that is Cloud.)

 

[BLKfrog]

People are over exaggerating in many ways. One main thing that triggered me to write this post is that people here are saying MK is unbalanced in his current state. Well, let me ask those MK players a question. Did you find it was balanced for your opponent to die at 20% because they made a simple mistake in neutral? I know I didn't and you guys probably didn't either I'm assuming. Being able to do that in every MU destroys the purpose of actually learning MUs which then leads to bad game design and it forms toxic in the community. Now that MK is more honest of a character in 1.1.5, people are calling him more unbalanced than he was prepatch. This just causes me to sigh in disbelief because of how wrong they are.

The second main over exaggeration and misconception by many it seems is the Uair combos. First off, the Uair combos still work. They are just more difficult to pull off by requiring more precise and faster inputs, the opponent has to be at lower %s like 15-30%, and they require you to have full aerial momentum so that you can follow the opponent's DI. With all this in mind, the opponent cannot DI or SDI out of the combos and you should be able to get around 40% or so on the opponent. Floaty, light, and big characters can get taken off the top with the Uair string to UpB regardless of the opponent's DI unless you do the combo at too early or too late of %s. Most mid weights and fast fallers won't die off the top because of all the fast falling Uairs you have to do, but you should still get huge damage off on them.

Finally, I feel that when people learn how to do the new Uair combos, people will see MK as top 15 again rather than mid tier. Imo, MK is between 7-11 on the tier list but I'll go as low as 14th.

I don't want to burst your bubble. But the official up air string combo into death at any "golden" percent if DI'ed, it will never work. You cannot say that the up air string still works because you are mixing up two different combos. The up air string means a combo into death.

Next to that, i do agree that killing your opponent at 0-20% was really ********. But as i said in the original thread and i quote myself "If you are not taking out all the broken mechanics then what is the point of taking away just two of the bunch? Either keep them all and buff all the low to mid tiers and give them own strong mechanics, or just nerf em all so the game actually gets balanced. So final answer is, if everyone got nerfed i would've been okay with it."

 

[Freakzoid9000MS]

I don't want to burst your bubble. But the official up air string combo into death at any "golden" percent if DI'ed, it will never work. You cannot say that the up air string still works because you are mixing up two different combos. The up air string means a combo into death.

Next to that, i do agree that killing your opponent at 0-20% was really ********. But as i said in the original thread and i quote myself "If you are not taking out all the broken mechanics then what is the point of taking away just two of the bunch? Either keep them all and buff all the low to mid tiers and give them own strong mechanics, or just nerf em all so the game actually gets balanced. So final answer is, if everyone got nerfed i would've been okay with it."

You cannot say the Uair string doesn't work because you have no proof to back up your assertions. How do you know if DI away will let you escape the Uair combos? Did you do any testing? Do you have any video proof? Probably not. I'm eventually going to post many different tests and scenarios of the Uair combos working to further back up my point but I can't right now because I'm away from my laptop. Also, I'm not mixing up any two combos. I specifically stated that the Uair string to death will work on floaty, light, or big characters. DI will NOT save certain characters from getting hit by the Uair string if done at lower %s. You can kill characters like TL, Rosa, Mewtwo, DK, etc. from a Dthrow/DA into Uair string into UpB if done at the correct %s and if you have a bit of rage. And the Uair string does not specifically mean "a combo into death." Who's to say that's what it means? I also stated that this combo won't kill mid weights, fast fallers, etc. because of all the FF Uairs you have to do, but you can still get around 40% if you start the combo from a DA/Dthrow at around 20-30% and the opponent can't DI out of it unless the MK player screws up. This will only kill those characters if the opponent messes up their DI. Another main reason why the Uair combos still work is because the Uair stales so much that it won't send your opponent as far away from you which makes it easier to string together. So after all i just said, do you really think that what I said earlier is full of bs? Don't take this post to heart btw, but I'm just trying to get these facts through your head. Also, if you're gonna make a counter argument, at least back up your position with strong information instead of saying what you said in your first paragraph.

 

[Ulevo]

I can tell you from proper testing that the ladder combo is in the game against specific characters, regardless of DI, and that the list of characters likely grows as rage becomes a factor. It is just that now the combo killing people is limited to characters who do not enter a tumble state while still being light enough with a slow enough fall speed to ascend during multiple up airs.

Also, what purpose does this thread serve?

 

[Freakzoid9000MS]

I can tell you from proper testing that the ladder combo is in the game against specific characters, regardless of DI, and that the list of characters likely grows as rage becomes a factor. It is just that now the combo killing people is limited to characters who do not enter a tumble state while still being light enough with a slow enough fall speed to ascend during multiple up airs.

Also, what purpose does this thread serve?

I actually have no idea why this thread exists lol but all I know is that it took time away from me that I could've used on my guide that I'm working on. These people just triggered me to stay in it longer XD.

 

[RosalinA]

Guys 1.1.6 is happening. Pray for buffs on arials and no nerfs to forward smash and dash attack, because we still need those.

 

[metanight1311]

As I stated before, 1 or 2 less frames of ending lag on any arials will do for me. Probably wont happen, but I can dream.

 

[RosalinA]

As I stated before, 1 or 2 less frames of ending lag on any arials will do for me. Probably wont happen, but I can dream.

Dreams do come true. Just like when Rosa somehow got more HP on Luma, and Sheik and Diddy Kong got nerfed even after Sakurai said no more patches. Also, I think everyone wants Jigglypuff to get buffed, and for Bayo to get nerfed.

 

[BLKfrog]

You cannot say the Uair string doesn't work because you have no proof to back up your assertions. How do you know if DI away will let you escape the Uair combos? Did you do any testing? Do you have any video proof? Probably not. I'm eventually going to post many different tests and scenarios of the Uair combos working to further back up my point but I can't right now because I'm away from my laptop. Also, I'm not mixing up any two combos. I specifically stated that the Uair string to death will work on floaty, light, or big characters. DI will NOT save certain characters from getting hit by the Uair string if done at lower %s. You can kill characters like TL, Rosa, Mewtwo, DK, etc. from a Dthrow/DA into Uair string into UpB if done at the correct %s and if you have a bit of rage. And the Uair string does not specifically mean "a combo into death." Who's to say that's what it means? I also stated that this combo won't kill mid weights, fast fallers, etc. because of all the FF Uairs you have to do, but you can still get around 40% if you start the combo from a DA/Dthrow at around 20-30% and the opponent can't DI out of it unless the MK player screws up. This will only kill those characters if the opponent messes up their DI. Another main reason why the Uair combos still work is because the Uair stales so much that it won't send your opponent as far away from you which makes it easier to string together. So after all i just said, do you really think that what I said earlier is full of bs? Don't take this post to heart btw, but I'm just trying to get these facts through your head. Also, if you're gonna make a counter argument, at least back up your position with strong information instead of saying what you said in your first paragraph.

Ive been gone for a while soz

I can confirm that with smash DI the ladder combo will NEVER work unless its rosalina.

 

[Ulevo]

Ive been gone for a while soz

I can confirm that with smash DI the ladder combo will NEVER work unless its rosalina.

I can confirm that this is wrong.

 

[metanight1311]

I can confirm that this is wrong.

I've been able to do the ladder combo. Granted, there is little breathing room between u-air strings and I performed them on Cpu's, but still possible.

 

[BunbUn129]

I've been able to do the ladder combo. Granted, there is little breathing room between u-air strings and I performed them on Cpu's, but still possible.

CPU's don't DI properly--they sometimes DI in on MK's ladder, but usually DI away--and I am confident they do not SDI that move.

Only reliable on floaties because they don't go into tumble at ladder percents so they have limited SDI capacity.

 

[metanight1311]

Thanks for the tip.

 

[BunbUn129]

Thanks for the tip.

It's still worth practicing up air combos on fast fallers, because even though it will almost never kill them, it's a very good ~35% damage combo. You'll have to fast-fall the up airs to keep them from falling out.

For example, against ROB at 0%, you can back throw -> tipper dash attack -> up air x6 -> up b for more than 40% damage.

 

[Amadeus9]

It's still worth practicing up air combos on fast fallers, because even though it will almost never kill them, it's a very good ~35% damage combo. You'll have to fast-fall the up airs to keep them from falling out.

For example, against ROB at 0%, you can back throw -> tipper dash attack -> up air x6 -> up b for more than 40% damage.

Yeah a lot of characters are still major combo food. Everyone else you might struggle with if all you know is combos tho lol.