Meta Knight in 1.04

[Claxus]

Hopes = Crushed

Hitboxes are still the same. F-tilt is still hilariously misleading. But seriously, good news: N-air does 10% now. It has some impressive killing power now, too!

Actually, he got a slight nerf. Yep. F-air 2nd hit no longer spikes. Don't think it's an universal thing, because strangely, his B-air still works for the spike.

But, his neutral Dimensional Cape got a buff, too. The sweetspot KOs from an Omega stage spawn at 95%, non-sweetspot about 105%. It's a side KO rather than off the top.

I think that's about it for changes... Not the best stuff, but that makes two buffed moves, and N-air doing 10% is pretty dang nice for his current state of 7%-or-less-for-everything. Heck, it KOs near the edge at 135%... 160% from the middle... Off stage it can probably KO pretty early now! Definitely a new KO option Meta Knight needed.

So basically, his silly range antics remain, but he's got a bit more for KO power and damage. I may have missed something less obvious...

 

[⑨ball]

Sounds good. Still looking like a solid mid-tier, but I'm liking the sound of nair.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm sitting with two copies here, one with 1.0.3 and the other with 1.0.4.

-N-Air has been buffed from 7% to 10% and now KOs ~45% earlier.
-Dimensional Cape sends the target in a more horizontal angle and now KOs ~15% earlier.
-Forward Throw has been changed, it now has two hitboxes that total 9% on all characters. It previously did 3% on some character and 9% on others, so it's more of a fix than anything else.
-Back Throw has received slightly increased knockback and KOs ~5% earlier.
-Back-Air's knockback has been increased a lot and now KOs a whopping ~30% earlier.
-Forward-Air can no longer spike.

All tests were performed on Pit at the spawning point of FD in Training Mode. These are definite changes, I did not write anything that I wasn't 100% sure on was changed. The buffs feel nice, but I don't feel like they're enough to boost him from lowish mid-tier obscurity, his range is still a huge problem. Despite that it's nice to see some acknowledgement of the problem, and the N-Air and B-Air buffs are still potential game changers.

 

[ItoI6]

fthrow not working had nothing to do with weight, but it does actually work as intended now.

also good catch on back air this is actually legit now, it kills sheik at 130 center stage with no VI god damn

imagine how early you kill when you actually edgeguard

i also suspect dtilt has a lower angle now, could you check if you dtilt someone at 100% in both versions if one will fly lower than the other?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

i also suspect dtilt has a lower angle now, could you check if you dtilt someone at 100% in both versions if one will fly lower than the other?

It's hard to say, but I don't think it's the case. If there's any change on that front it's extremely subtle at least.

 

[Robin1613]

good stuff @ MasterOfKnees looking forward to using him!

 

[Jackson]

Anybody know how to reliably get the Bair spike now that the fair spike is gone?

 

[Karasu]

Can someone test if his Up-Sash has more Knockback too?
I got an early kill with it on a FD-Stage which really surprised me (but maybe the FD-Stages are now smaller?).

 

[Claxus]

@ Jackson It's kinda the same. Just time the B-air close to your landing. Unfortunately it's a bit finicky, I think the timing is stricter as sometimes the first hit will simply knock them away, but it works.

Can someone test if his Up-Sash has more Knockback too?
I got an early kill with it on a FD-Stage which really surprised me (but maybe the FD-Stages are now smaller?)

IIRC it KOs around 125%+. How early do you mean? Can't give facts but it's always been a pretty decent KO move.

 

[Karasu]

IIRC it KOs around 125%+. How early do you mean? Can't give facts but it's always been a pretty decent KO move.

At around 115%, so not a great difference. Maybe he just vectored in the wrong direction? Would be nice to have more Knockback on this move too but it doesn't seem so :/

 

[Katakiri]

I think Tornado got very slightly nerfed. It only does 21% instead of 22% The 22% was always difficult to net because you had to move forward then back mid-nado with specific timing but that seems to only do 21% now with any other tornado movement doing 17-20%. I can't hit the 22% number at all anymore, even on Donkey Kong.

Other than that, as someone that's already making making tourney money with MK, I'll take these buffs without hesitation.

Top 3 best characters in the game got nerfed, 6th best (imo) got buffed. It was a good day.

Edit: Just tried out the B-Air buff in some friendlies. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WOW! I'll take it! I think that move kills stupid early but I'll take it! Kills ROB slightly off-stage at 70%. It's dirty but I'll take it!

 

[Claxus]

I think Tornado got very slightly nerfed. It only does 21% instead of 22% The 22% was always difficult to net because you had to move forward then back mid-nado with specific timing but that seems to only do 21% now with any other tornado movement doing 17-20%. I can't hit the 22% number at all anymore, even on Donkey Kong.

Other than that, as someone that's already making making tourney money with MK, I'll take these buffs without hesitation.

Top 3 best characters in the game got nerfed, 6th best (imo) got buffed. It was a good day.

Nah, I just managed to get a 22%. It doesn't require any movement either, just mashing in place. But it requires ridiculous mashing... And a lot of luck, too. I got 17 hits with it, one time it did 21%, another 22%. So I think the occasional 2%s the tornado does may be semi random... Well, I consider it a 16% attack anyway as it seems that's the highest you can get consistently.

@ Karasu Looks like U-smash is still 130% for KOs on average, tested against Marth. So it was probably bad/no hitstun shuffling. However, charging it for just a split second lets it KO about 120%. 115% may KO lighter characters, though.

Soo... Meta Knight's got some KO power going now. We just gained Dimensional Cape power. Neutral and forward versions both can KO near the edge at 100% now, from the middle at 115%. The backward version still seems a bit... Pointless. However, it's important to properly use the other two now, they're similar, but one launches left and another launches right. N-air KOs at the 160s from center stage, . 130% around the edge. B-air though is now Dimensional Cape tier, KOing at 115% near the edge, and about 145% center.
(Numbers using Marth as an average)

While I would have loved F-tilt to have range matching the animation (it's really the only instantly noticeably broken hitbox he has), I'm glad we have so many fast KO options now, and they're surprisingly early for Meta Knight...

 

[HammerHappy]

bair and nair buffs are huge considering how good Metaknight is offstage.

Force someone off ledge, jump and bair them.

 

[Jackson]

What are these "different versions" of dimensional cape and how can you use each?

 

[Katakiri]

Does anyone else notice a huge improvement on D-Air's hitboxes? As in it's actually what it looks like from the sword trail and then some? It kept its hitbox in the front but the hitbox on the back is larger iirc. I have another 3DS with Smash 1.0.3 in my car so I'll have to test that theory later.

Up-Air too but I'm less sure about that one. It feels bigger and more accurate.

 

[Claxus]

What are these "different versions" of dimensional cape and how can you use each?

Check this topic out, it has all the stuff we know:
http://smashboards.com/threads/meta...s-waiting-for-1-04-mk-buffs-hopefully.378359/

Search for Lavani's quote there in the advanced techs section. The KO numbers are a bit off now since they just changed. The neutral Dimensional Cape has a sweetspot that seems to hit when you hit them around their upper-half, or below Meta Knight. About shorthop distance. Pretty easy to land once you get used to just aiming slightly above where they are.

@ Katakiri Can't say I'm feeling it. D-air still whiffs front and back unless you're near point blank.

 

[ItoI6]

Forward throw is actually really legit now I think it has increased hitstun as well working correctly that makes several previously impossible combos now work. For example at 0% mk can fthrow-dash attack sheik even when he does it from a standing grab and itll always work, and upb combos afterward from that to do like 26%. Fthrow-Usmash works even from standing grab against certain characters and does more damage than dthrow-usmash but it only works depending on weight and only works starting from like 0-5%. If you slide forward from a dash grab its incredibly easy to combo into anything basically even up to 50%. I'm gonna start using it a lot more for sure.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Hitboxes are still crap IMO. If Galacta Knight were here he would be kicking this version of Meta Knight real easy. Meta Knight is a light character, generally has quick and weak attacks and needs range to compensate for dying quickly if enough damage is sustained. Except here his range has the decency of the range of Bowser's Flying slam for most of his attacks. Basically MK is pretty gimped and will have to use his prowess in the air to gimp his opponent. Gimper gimping. What irony.

Not to mention he has very few kill move options, most that can be blocked. You will have to basically play the game Ganondorf plays and punish for mistakes accordingly.

 

[ndayday]

These buffs are great. I have definitely been taking advantage of the fixed fthrow as well, and gimping is just so much easier with a strong nair since it was an "okay" poking move before. And of course a back air that kills is great.

I don't feel hitboxes have changed at all btw.

Hitboxes are still crap IMO. If Galacta Knight were here he would be kicking this version of Meta Knight real easy. Meta Knight is a light character, generally has quick and weak attacks and needs range to compensate for dying quickly if enough damage is sustained. Except here his range has the decency of the range of Bowser's Flying slam for most of his attacks. Basically MK is pretty gimped and will have to use his prowess in the air to gimp his opponent. Gimper gimping. What irony.

Not to mention he has very few kill move options, most that can be blocked. You will have to basically play the game Ganondorf plays and punish for mistakes accordingly.

are you talking in general here or about 1.04?

 

[MagiusNecros]

In general. I was hoping the hitboxes for all of his attacks would be adjusted. Doesn't seem like that happened.

 

[ndayday]

Yeah, but oh well. Granted I don't really have a solid opinion on Ganondorf yet but I probably wouldn't go as far as to say he's totally dependent on reads like I remember Brawl being.

 

[Katakiri]

So I wasn't crazy. I did some testing with one 3DS on 1.0.4 and the other on 1.0.3. I found that both Meta Knight's Down-Air and Up-Air have changed but it's not as exciting as I thought it would be.

D-Air & Up-Air's Sword-trails are now shorter to match their actual reach. F-Air, F-Tilt, & D-Smash still have their slightly deceptive sword trails. Even then, F-Air almost isn't even worth mentioning because the sword-trail is only very slightly inaccurate and F-Tilt isn't even a spacing tool so, if D-Smash gets fixed, MK will literally look good.

So no new hitboxes, just honest sword-trails. It really does make a big difference though. A lot less whiffed D-Airs or ruined Up-Air chains.

 

[Claxus]

Good find. That's weird, they fixed some but left the worst intact? F-tilt's trail doesn't hit at all, and it's pretty huge, you can see the whole thing swipe cleanly past characters.

Is D-smash bad though? When I tried out the hit boxes for it, they seemed pretty legit for the visuals, though the range itself is lacking.

 

[Float SSB]

I have been utilizing his nair quite a bit. It is now one of my goto options for scoring a kill. My favorite use of it so far is conditioning my opponents to dash grabs then running up like I would for a grab, short hopping to bait something out (spot dodge, attack or otherwise) and then falling on them with nair. The beginning of the move has HUGE knockback :D

The bair has also been pretty cool as an edgeguard.

also, at very low percents you can f-throw and on a bad vector just straight up shuttle loop them. Might not be worth it over the guaranteed d throw fair combo though.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Good find. That's weird, they fixed some but left the worst intact? F-tilt's trail doesn't hit at all, and it's pretty huge, you can see the whole thing swipe cleanly past characters.

Is D-smash bad though? When I tried out the hit boxes for it, they seemed pretty legit for the visuals, though the range itself is lacking.

D-Smash still doesn't look right at all.

 

[ndayday]

So, vectoring was removed (vertical knockback influence). Moves that benefit from this:
u-smash
shuttle loop
u-throw
u-air
u-tilt
tornado
down b - suspected knockback changes may be in error due to this
dash
(what else am I missing)

This opens up a lot, whether it's stringing together utilts for longer (maybe?) to an even deadlier shuttle loop. LET'S TALK BOYS

 

[Claxus]

Nah, Dimensional Cape definitely got stronger, and its trajectory doesn't even KO off the top now (more horizontal, so where you are on stage affects the KO now). Especially the neutral version. Sweetspotted, it seems identical to the forward/reverse version now, but they both launch in two different directions, so it's more important to decide which to use now if closer to one side of the stage.

But yeah, I was thinking Meta Knight gets some of the most benefits from the new mechanics. Now his U-air will combo a bit better, and Shuttle Loop, U-smash, and Mach Tornado will KO consistently. And stuff like U-tilt and spaced dash attack will have their guaranteed U-air/Shuttle Loop follow-ups as they can't move upwards to outrange.

 

[ItoI6]

thats really good for dthrow and fthrow because the percents where it true combos into shuttle loop get increased by about 20 or so i think. its good for his kill moves too i guess, but i cant really think of why anything else would benefit. oh uair and dash attack will combo better too so thats cool

 

[DiggersBoy]

See, the removal of vectoring would be welcomed by me.

If I wasn't already trained to vector LOL

Now I'm just DI'ing into infinite jabs XDDDDDD

 

[Mr.Random]

Mk was never mid due to his great punish game. I always considered him high or mid high.

 

[EchoesOfRain]

On the 3ds I left Meta alone, as he didn't feel very good at all, but...On the Wii U he feels amazing! The small changes from 3ds release put MK in a much better state, and I feel like I'm actually doing well with him. He could very well become my main again ^_^

it's amazing how such small differences can feel so noticeable

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well MK is semi decent now that we have an actual controller to use since you need precise controls to use him well.

 

[DiggersBoy]

I don't have my adapter yet (hopefully getting it Monday), so I've been using my 3DS still. Because of that, the game still feels the same to me XD

But Meta Knight is still good for me using 3DS controls. I never quite mained him in Brawl, specifically because I hate gliding.

 

[daedgaem]

Meta knight needs to have his extreme lag on every move to be reduced/remove like the other characters.