Mentality that you have when playing/ basic ways to improve?

[BlueDaruma888]

Hi there everybody!

So I think I've hit a bit of a rut on how to improve from my current level. I've been playing Sm4sh casually for almost a year now, but after reading a number of threads, the general consensus seems to be that playing online against human opponents is a lot more effective than fighting CPUs, so I jumped online for the first time a few months back, fully prepared to get bodied. While I was never a competitive player, I felt like I had a decent grasp of what I should be doing during a match. However, from my experiences of playing on For Glory, I have thus far lost nearly every single one of matches, often getting 2-0'd, and my self esteem has tanked quite a bit. I think the lack of improvement can be attributed to two things:

- Lack of experience. I'm guessing the only solution is to just play more. I get super nervous even during matches due to suddenly being placed in an unfamiliar environment, especially if a match comes down to the wire. This can sometimes be attributed to online lag, but even when the reception is really good, I often find myself struggling just to control my character. Offline in either training mode, or the rare occasion with friends, I'm fine, and all of my inputs come out just as desired. But once online, a lot of it seems to go out the window. I often find myself exhibiting really bad spacing, incorrect inputs (short hops become full hops, tilts become smashes, forgetting that I've used my second jump etc.), missing techs/ power shields, and habits such as rolling and unsafe attacks on shield, etc. As a result, I feel like I've lost to plenty of really casual players. The fact that I almost exclusively play probably doesn't help a whole lot either.

- Breaks in motivation. IRL, I've been in the midst of a job search (I'm out of school) for a couple of months already, and don't often get home until late at night. That, coupled with my abysmal win ratio has resulted in breaks from even turning the game on for days at a time. Every so often, I'd come across the motivation to turn the Wii U on again from watching a tournament or one of those player compilation videos on Youtube, but said initial joy very quickly dissipates when I realize that I'm not even remotely close to attempting some of thet things that I've watched.

I guess what I'm asking is, what sort of thought process do you guys have while playing, or what's your motivation to practice at times? I have reached a point where I'm trying my best to watch my opponent, recognizing what sort of match up has against the opposing character/ developing a game plan during any given stage of a match, recording and watching replays, and recognizing both my own and my opponent's habits (which I've actually gotten fairly good at). However, I feel there's an emotional aspect that I'm missing, and am not able to use the aforementioned practices properly. Other than that, any other immediate tips, or perhaps experiences that people are willing to share/ are you currently experiencing this/ what you did do to get out of it?

I don't have a lot of immediate friends that play the game enough that I can train with, but there is a tournament scene/ weekly game night close to where I live where people play Smash Bros and other fighting games. I've been meaning to go to for a while, but unemployment has made me exceptionally frugal, which is really the main reason why I haven't gone there yet, as there is a fee just to enter the vicinity. I've also been recommended to take a look at Anther's Ladder, but I always feel like I need to at least be able to control my character's movements/ inputs online first before jumping on there.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks a ton if you spent the time to read through all of this. Any advice would definitely be helpful!

 

[Crystanium]

First, take a loss as an opportunity to learn. Don't get discouraged for losing. It happens, but it's not over. Second, play to learn. Don't worry about playing to win. Why? Because you've been playing casually. It's time to learn to play the proper way. Third, why not learn to control your character while playing in Anther's Ladder? Or you could go to Training Mode and learn to refine your controlling Shulk? When I noticed I jumped too high with Zero Suit Samus while z-airing, I went to Training Mode to learn short hopping z-air. Your brain is plastic. It'll change as you practice. Finally, don't enter a match expecting to get "bodied". You just set yourself up for failure by doing so.

 

[Axel311]

- Watch the top players of your character and takes notes, implement what they do into your play
- Watch your replays, see if you can find mistakes you keep repeating so you can eliminate them
- Learn all the tech you can for your character and get it all down in practice mode
- Ask questions on this board, discord, or wherever there is an active community for your character
- Play on Anther's Ladder

And yeah, playing shulk is going to make winning a lot harder. Sucks but just the way it is if you decide to main a low tier.

 

[BlueDaruma888]

First, take a loss as an opportunity to learn. Don't get discouraged for losing. It happens, but it's not over. Second, play to learn. Don't worry about playing to win. Why? Because you've been playing casually. It's time to learn to play the proper way. Third, why not learn to control your character while playing in Anther's Ladder? Or you could go to Training Mode and learn to refine your controlling Shulk? When I noticed I jumped too high with Zero Suit Samus while z-airing, I went to Training Mode to learn short hopping z-air. Your brain is plastic. It'll change as you practice. Finally, don't enter a match expecting to get "bodied". You just set yourself up for failure by doing so.

I did a lot of thinking after I made my post, and that last part that you talked about actually speaks a lot; I suspect it may be a big part as to why I haven't been seeing success. However, I still feel as if the motivation + the emotional connection that drives me to actually get up and practice stems greatly from my history as a casual player. Do you generally have some sort of goal aside from just "I want to get better at the game" that drives you to sit down and practice consistently?

I'm actually home at the moment, where my parent's internet is dodgy at best, so I'll try to spend some more time in the lab as a result.

 

[BlueDaruma888]

- Watch the top players of your character and takes notes, implement what they do into your play
- Watch your replays, see if you can find mistakes you keep repeating so you can eliminate them
- Learn all the tech you can for your character and get it all down in practice mode
- Ask questions on this board, discord, or wherever there is an active community for your character
- Play on Anther's Ladder

And yeah, playing shulk is going to make winning a lot harder. Sucks but just the way it is if you decide to main a low tier.

Been trying a number of those things already, save for the latter part. I'll be taking @der Rabe 's advice and working my way to controlling Shulk properly there.

On the topic of making winning "harder" by using Shulk, would it make sense to pick up another character to focus on honing my fundamentals with then? I have fairly personal reasons as to why I like and play Shulk, so I don't ever plan on dropping him, but maybe another, potentially easier to use character would help in improving my Shulk game as well? I used to play Cloud a quite a bit when he was first released due not having to play too different from my Shulk, but as of late I haven't been giving him a lot of attention.

At the same time, I also feel a big part my reasoning behind this could be the desire for gratification from actually experiencing victories, even if at the end of the day it isn't so much the character that produces the results, but it's the player (especially considering how I've more or less lost at least once to every character in the roster at this point). Any thoughts?

 

[Axel311]

Been trying a number of those things already, save for the latter part. I'll be taking @der Rabe 's advice and working my way to controlling Shulk properly there.

On the topic of making winning "harder" by using Shulk, would it make sense to pick up another character to focus on honing my fundamentals with then? I have fairly personal reasons as to why I like and play Shulk, so I don't ever plan on dropping him, but maybe another, potentially easier to use character would help in improving my Shulk game as well? I used to play Cloud a quite a bit when he was first released due not having to play too different from my Shulk, but as of late I haven't been giving him a lot of attention.

At the same time, I also feel a big part my reasoning behind this could be the desire for gratification from actually experiencing victories, even if at the end of the day it isn't so much the character that produces the results, but it's the player (especially considering how I've more or less lost at least once to every character in the roster at this point). Any thoughts?

In my opinion, if you're serious about wanting to win tournaments you need to play a top tier. Or atleast a high tier. Just the way it is unfortunately in competitive fighting games. And if you want you don't have to play to win tournaments, you can play to be the best of your character. Sounds like you may have interest in doing that and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally I think you should play Shulk if he is your favorite character, this game is for fun after all, just don't main him. Keep him as a secondary. Main Cloud, secondary shulk sounds like the best solution for you.

 

[Crystanium]

I did a lot of thinking after I made my post, and that last part that you talked about actually speaks a lot; I suspect it may be a big part as to why I haven't been seeing success. However, I still feel as if the motivation + the emotional connection that drives me to actually get up and practice stems greatly from my history as a casual player. Do you generally have some sort of goal aside from just "I want to get better at the game" that drives you to sit down and practice consistently?

I'm actually home at the moment, where my parent's internet is dodgy at best, so I'll try to spend some more time in the lab as a result.

I think my goal is just the same as everyone else's goal. I will tell you, however, that your goal should be realistic. If you go for a goal that isn't realistic, then you will find yourself becoming frustrated, which will cause you to lack motivation. Goals can be broken up into smaller parts and then combined later. Going back to my example of Zero Suit Samus, I tried to learn how to perform short hop z-airs. I didn't care about how long I'd spend in Training Mode. All I cared about is learning so that my muscle memory would improve. This would mean that I wouldn't have to worry about properly making the button input because it would be second nature. What about learning to string combos with Zero Suit Samus? That's important, but that can be addressed after learning to short hop z-air, since short hopping is essential to consecutive u-airs.

You may not know, but if you think about something that doesn't require you to think, you may slow down your performance. Think of it like typing a story. If you have a story in mind, you can type without stopping. If you have to think about what you want to write next, you'll slow yourself down. I'm not suggesting that you go auto-pilot when you're playing, as that can affect your performance if you're not focusing on what your opponent is doing. However, what I am saying is that the skills you develop will already be integrated into your brain so you won't have to think about the button inputs, how much pressure you'll need to apply, nor will you have to focus on the direction your character is facing, nor the position he's in. It'll come naturally.

I think when it comes to goals, you should think about what you want to achieve. Goals are subjective, but for you, can be objective. If you break down your goals, then you can work your way up. Say you want to become a recognized Shulk player. You attend tournaments. That's good, but then suppose you want to be one of the best Shulk players in your region. Keep in mind I didn't say, "Become the best Shulk player in your region." You can get to that if you work on it, but your focus should just be on becoming one of the best. This will take time and dedication, but the question is, are you willing to put in the effort? If you're content on becoming one of the best, that's fine. The goal is entirely up to you. You could think about something or someone in your life as a way to motivate yourself if you feel that would help motivate you.

The way I see it, I used to get discouraged when I'd lose. I wanted to become the best Samus main back when Brawl was the current game. If I lost a lot, I'd end up not wanting to play anymore because I thought to myself that it's not fun to lose. This caused me to not perform as well because by that point, I really didn't care. When Sm4sh was released, I changed my perspective on the game. I decided to take the advice I was given before: Just have fun and don't take losing personally. The benefit, in my opinion, of playing to learn is that no matter how many times you lose, you end up learning new strategies. If you focus solely on playing to win all the time, you will stress yourself out. So, perhaps you could set up a goal that involves a change in attitude. We all started out as casual players before. It just requires us to rethink the way we play.

In my opinion, if you're serious about wanting to win tournaments you need to play a top tier. Or atleast a high tier. Just the way it is unfortunately in competitive fighting games. And if you want you don't have to play to win tournaments, you can play to be the best of your character. Sounds like you may have interest in doing that and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally I think you should play Shulk if he is your favorite character, this game is for fun after all, just don't main him. Keep him as a secondary. Main Cloud, secondary shulk sounds like the best solution for you.

Oh, that's not an opinion. That's fact. Anyone who denies this, well, too bad for them. Sure, playing top tier characters don't necessarily mean you'll win, but I have wondered and even asked my brother if by me using Samus, I am limiting myself. I know I am. Samus isn't the best in this game. She's not even mid tier. The only reason why I use her is because she's my favorite fictional character, but that's just a personal preference. If I really want to perform a lot better, I should be using Mario because he is more comfortable for me to play as than Zero Suit Samus. And he's just better than Samus, even though I don't care much about Mario. He's fun, though, and that's why he's someone else I use.

 

[BlueDaruma888]

I think my goal is just the same as everyone else's goal. I will tell you, however, that your goal should be realistic. If you go for a goal that isn't realistic, then you will find yourself becoming frustrated, which will cause you to lack motivation. Goals can be broken up into smaller parts and then combined later. Going back to my example of Zero Suit Samus, I tried to learn how to perform short hop z-airs. I didn't care about how long I'd spend in Training Mode. All I cared about is learning so that my muscle memory would improve. This would mean that I wouldn't have to worry about properly making the button input because it would be second nature. What about learning to string combos with Zero Suit Samus? That's important, but that can be addressed after learning to short hop z-air, since short hopping is essential to consecutive u-airs.

You may not know, but if you think about something that doesn't require you to think, you may slow down your performance. Think of it like typing a story. If you have a story in mind, you can type without stopping. If you have to think about what you want to write next, you'll slow yourself down. I'm not suggesting that you go auto-pilot when you're playing, as that can affect your performance if you're not focusing on what your opponent is doing. However, what I am saying is that the skills you develop will already be integrated into your brain so you won't have to think about the button inputs, how much pressure you'll need to apply, nor will you have to focus on the direction your character is facing, nor the position he's in. It'll come naturally.

I think when it comes to goals, you should think about what you want to achieve. Goals are subjective, but for you, can be objective. If you break down your goals, then you can work your way up. Say you want to become a recognized Shulk player. You attend tournaments. That's good, but then suppose you want to be one of the best Shulk players in your region. Keep in mind I didn't say, "Become the best Shulk player in your region." You can get to that if you work on it, but your focus should just be on becoming one of the best. This will take time and dedication, but the question is, are you willing to put in the effort? If you're content on becoming one of the best, that's fine. The goal is entirely up to you. You could think about something or someone in your life as a way to motivate yourself if you feel that would help motivate you.

The way I see it, I used to get discouraged when I'd lose. I wanted to become the best Samus main back when Brawl was the current game. If I lost a lot, I'd end up not wanting to play anymore because I thought to myself that it's not fun to lose. This caused me to not perform as well because by that point, I really didn't care. When Sm4sh was released, I changed my perspective on the game. I decided to take the advice I was given before: Just have fun and don't take losing personally. The benefit, in my opinion, of playing to learn is that no matter how many times you lose, you end up learning new strategies. If you focus solely on playing to win all the time, you will stress yourself out. So, perhaps you could set up a goal that involves a change in attitude. We all started out as casual players before. It just requires us to rethink the way we play.



Oh, that's not an opinion. That's fact. Anyone who denies this, well, too bad for them. Sure, playing top tier characters don't necessarily mean you'll win, but I have wondered and even asked my brother if by me using Samus, I am limiting myself. I know I am. Samus isn't the best in this game. She's not even mid tier. The only reason why I use her is because she's my favorite fictional character, but that's just a personal preference. If I really want to perform a lot better, I should be using Mario because he is more comfortable for me to play as than Zero Suit Samus. And he's just better than Samus, even though I don't care much about Mario. He's fun, though, and that's why he's someone else I use.

I know that this has been up for a while already, but I just wanted to come out and thank you for such an in depth and thoughtful post. I don't personally plan on ever showing up in big tournaments or anything, so I think for the time being, a good goal for myself would be "see how far I can go when I try to actually be serious about this", and work my way up from there. I'm sure that investing a ton of time in the lab, playing against others more frequently, or going to locals may further this impression on me as well.

As much as I love Shulk, I honestly can't see him as placing well in tournaments either, which really is a bummer. Everything about Shulk, from his character to his play style, just seems incredibly interesting, and I take a bit of pride in being known amongst my small group of friends that do play as being "the Shulk player". So I think while it's time to pick up and train with Cloud again, Shulk will continue to be my main until the situation calls for a switch otherwise.

Thanks once again! Been working on spacing short hop back airs with Shulk in the lab in the meantime, and I'm starting to see some progress already.

 

[Crystanium]

I know that this has been up for a while already, but I just wanted to come out and thank you for such an in depth and thoughtful post. I don't personally plan on ever showing up in big tournaments or anything, so I think for the time being, a good goal for myself would be "see how far I can go when I try to actually be serious about this", and work my way up from there. I'm sure that investing a ton of time in the lab, playing against others more frequently, or going to locals may further this impression on me as well.

As much as I love Shulk, I honestly can't see him as placing well in tournaments either, which really is a bummer. Everything about Shulk, from his character to his play style, just seems incredibly interesting, and I take a bit of pride in being known amongst my small group of friends that do play as being "the Shulk player". So I think while it's time to pick up and train with Cloud again, Shulk will continue to be my main until the situation calls for a switch otherwise.

Thanks once again! Been working on spacing short hop back airs with Shulk in the lab in the meantime, and I'm starting to see some progress already.

You're welcome. Whenever I see anyone like you post something about performance and improving, I'm always more than willing to give advice. It's unfortunate that I personally haven't been able to play for quite some time, but I trust I'll be able to get back into the game in spite of everyone else being ahead. I also understand using a character who may not perform as well. Like you, I take pride in my Samus as well and like you, enjoy being known as the one who plays as Samus. Just keep up the good work, maintain a positive attitude, and don't blame yourself if you lose. Accept loss whenever it happens and keep trying new strategies. Most of all, have fun.