Melee vs. Smash Wii U? (New Player)

[Vardamas]

So I am EXTREMELY new to the Smash scene, like I'm not even a player yet that's how new I am. I watched the Smash Bros Documentary Series ( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoUHkRwnRH-IXbZfwlgiEN8eXmoj6DtKM ) and it got me really eager to want to play smash. So I started doing some research as to if Smash Wii U is as good as Melee, because in the documentary everyone ****ted on Brawl so that made me curious as to if Smash Wii U was any good. And I'm not seeing any reviews of Smash Wii U that are necessarily bad, just that it might not be as good enough for competitive as Melee is. And if I'm going to play Smash I want to play it competitively. So I thought I'd come to Smash Boards to seek out some advice. Help me out?

 

[Sleepy Driz]

The documentary focuses on the history of the competitive Melee scene; if that's what you're interested, I'd recommend picking up Melee. Smash for Wii U got rid of a lot of the problems of Brawl that the scene disliked (like random tripping for example) but it's still very much a successor to Brawl and doesn't have the same hyper competitive mechanics and advanced techniques that Melee players embrace and love. I'd recommend trying both out and watching videos of high level play for both games if you can, but I think Melee is currently more associated with competitive play, as evidenced by higher involvement with sponsors and Esports teams like Cloud 9, Evil Geniuses and Alliance, more than twice as many peak concurrent viewers than Smash 4 Finals during Evo 2015, and Melee's inclusion in the lineup for DreamHack.

 

[Stride]

Which one is better is a matter of preference and opinion. They both have successful competitive scenes that are still growing. Play whichever one you like (which may be both of them).

 

[EPsilon933]

The bare minimum you'd need to play competitively is a controller and transportation. Both games are intuitive to learn. You can learn them as you play without having to practice things in training mode just to know what you're doing

Facebook groups for Melee regions
http://smashboards.com/threads/facebook-groups-links.325058/unread

I'm too lazy to look up a Smash 4 equivalent

 

[necroTaxonomist]

I think the main difference between them is their fun distribution with respect to time.

Melee mostly alternates between doing rad combos and edgeguards, which is fun, and getting comboed and edgeguarded, which is not.

Since neither of those things are as rad in Sm4sh, the game provides a more consistent amount of fun, but not really as fun as the most fun parts of Melee.

Think of it like Melee is AC, Sm4sh is DC.

 

[PepaCorn]

I'll probably offend some people by saying this but I truly think that the only reason someone would favour Smash4 over Melee is if they aren't skilled enough for Melee.
Smash4 is fun but if we're looking at what is more competitive, Melee clearly takes it.
If you're looking for an easier ride then go with Smash4, but if you are willing to invest more time and develop more skill, then go with Melee.

Just before anyone goes off, this is just my opinion.

EDIT: I'm aware that Smash4 is much more accessible, and this is can be a contributing factor to some choosing it over Melee

 

[jhunter_d]

Melee is a good game, Smash 4 is not. There's your answer /s

In all seriousness, Melee is faster paced and good players need to have good technical skill along with good strategy and mindgames. This technical skill allows for more creativity in combos and whatnot. Smash 4 relies more on discrete RPS/50-50 situations, whereas Melee mindgames are more about getting a feel for one's opponent and adapting to their general playstyle.

 

[GenNyan]

I'll probably offend some people by saying this but I truly think that the only reason someone would favour Smash4 over Melee is if they aren't skilled enough for Melee.
Smash4 is fun but if we're looking at what is more competitive, Melee clearly takes it.
If you're looking for an easier ride then go with Smash4, but if you are willing to invest more time and develop more skill, then go with Melee.

Just before anyone goes off, this is just my opinion.

EDIT: I'm aware that Smash4 is much more accessible, and this is can be a contributing factor to some choosing it over Melee

Thats not really something that can be an opinion. Smash 4 simply tests a different set of skills than melee does. "More competitive" is a phrase that doesn't even make sense. Nobody asks if baseball is more competitive than basketball. What are the requirements for a "competitive" game? Does it need lots of little tricks and secrets to master? No, soccer is as straightforward as it gets. Does it need mental exertion? Nah, a footrace is competitive. That phrase honestly needs to die.

What it really needs is a high skill ceiling (It doesn't even have to be that high, if two players could both feasibly reach a skill ceiling, other factors like who performs better under pressure would create the outcome) and players who can consistently get top placings. Melee and Smash 4 both have incredible depth that is nowhere close to being maxed out. That eliminates the first factor. Melee and Smash 4 both CLEARLY have players who can rack up wins consistently. If wins were handed out randomly and were handed out by pure chance, then it would not be competitive (Though having random elements don't make games any less competitive, see poker.)

In all seriousness, Melee is faster paced and good players need to have good technical skill along with good strategy and mindgames. This technical skill allows for more creativity in combos and whatnot. Smash 4 relies more on discrete RPS/50-50 situations, whereas Melee mindgames are more about getting a feel for one's opponent and adapting to their general playstyle.

Nope. Nope nope nope. Saying Smash 4 doesn't require tech skill, strategy, or mind games is like saying that humans don't require air. Sure, I could live for a few minutes without oxygen, but, you know, I wouldn't make it very far in bracket (I'd probably drown in pools. Get it? I crack myself up. Anyway...). Smash 4 has less tech skill, but that just means it becomes more important to be able to perform what little there is perfectly. And saying that it has less mind games or strategy is quite ignorant. And I laughed when you said the RPS thing. Thats really just not true. Also ever heard of Mew2King? He built his melee career on exploiting 50/50 situations. And "getting a feel" is one of many ways to play melee (as well as Smash 4!) You need to adapt in both games. That should really be a given.

 

[jhunter_d]

Crap, I didn't mean to come off like that. Smash 4 is a game heavily based off of mindgames. What I meant to say was something more along the lines of something that I read a while ago that I agree with -- Smash 4 is a lot like a traditional fighter in the sense that mindgames/strategy revolves around positioning and hitboxes, while Melee is a movement-based fighting game in the sense that in order to play well, you have to master the strategy of reading your opponent's general movement. I hope that cleared things up.

 

[PepaCorn]

GenNyan To me, having a higher skill ceiling, which Melee does, makes the game more competitive; it allows for greater improvement and more strategies.

Let me rephrase 'More competitive' to 'Better geared towards competitive play'. You may not like that either, but I feel it's true.

 

[comics]

I'd say Melee if you are looking into competition. Also, when you progress in skill it is rewarding and obvious whereas in Smash 4 the videos almost make it look like anybody could do it (which isn't true, but you get my point).

Watch high level vids and decide for yourself. The Melee scene seems bigger and definitely is around where I live from what I know.

There is no wrong answer but I'm heavily biased towards Melee. That is just me though. Just know that Melee will take a LONG TIME to get good at (with all the tech skill at first) but you can get good pretty fast if you put your mind to it. But the game has never been in better shape and is only going to grow.

Play what you have a passion for and you will go places and have fun.

 

[GenNyan]

GenNyan To me, having a higher skill ceiling, which Melee does, makes the game more competitive; it allows for greater improvement and more strategies.

The problem with that, is that you are saying that Melee has a higher skill ceiling as if you know that it's true. Nobody has reached it in either game. So as far as anybody right now is concerned, both games, for all intents and purposes, have an infinitely high ceiling. Saying that one is objectively better is like saying that apples objectively taste better than oranges.

I personally enjoy melee better. I can recognize that its only my opinion, and I don't try to invalidate the hundreds/thousands of hours that Sm4sh players put into their very real skills. Nobody is telling you that you have to like Smash 4. But saying that Smash 4 players aren't as skilled just because of their game choice is poor sportsmanship.

 

[Sutekh]

The problem with that, is that you are saying that Melee has a higher skill ceiling as if you know that it's true. Nobody has reached it in either game. So as far as anybody right now is concerned, both games, for all intents and purposes, have an infinitely high ceiling. Saying that one is objectively better is like saying that apples objectively taste better than oranges.

I personally enjoy melee better. I can recognize that its only my opinion, and I don't try to invalidate the hundreds/thousands of hours that Sm4sh players put into their very real skills. Nobody is telling you that you have to like Smash 4. But saying that Smash 4 players aren't as skilled just because of their game choice is poor sportsmanship.

No one is saying that you can't like Smash 4. Saying that Melee's mechanics create a deeper competitive experience is not saying that Smash 4 players aren't talented at what they do. It's simply that Melee's mechanics, being faster and more focused around long punishes, are more fun to watch at a high level and offer more room for growth and improvement for players. I think your fruit analogy is a little off; Saying that Melee is a game better suited to competitive play is like saying that oranges are objectively more round than apples. It doesn't mean that apples are bad or you're wrong for liking them, it's just the truth.

 

[GenNyan]

No one is saying that you can't like Smash 4. Saying that Melee's mechanics create a deeper competitive experience is not saying that Smash 4 players aren't talented at what they do. It's simply that Melee's mechanics, being faster and more focused around long punishes, are more fun to watch at a high level and offer more room for growth and improvement for players. I think your fruit analogy is a little off; Saying that Melee is a game better suited to competitive play is like saying that oranges are objectively more round than apples. It doesn't mean that apples are bad or you're wrong for liking them, it's just the truth.

But pepacorn IS saying that Smash 4 players aren't talented.

I'll probably offend some people by saying this but I truly think that the only reason someone would favour Smash4 over Melee is if they aren't skilled enough for Melee.
Smash4 is fun but if we're looking at what is more competitive, Melee clearly takes it.
If you're looking for an easier ride then go with Smash4, but if you are willing to invest more time and develop more skill, then go with Melee.

 

[ViVio]

Sm4sh for the characters, Melee for the game

 

[TheBoyFromNowhere]

Hey man, glad you found Smash Bros! I'm much like you when it comes to games, I get the most value playing competitively. I've played Smash for 12 years and Melee's flow is unmatched as you know. Also you don't have to travel to play competitively either. You can play using https://www.smashladder.com/ which is a better matchmaking than For Glory in my opinion. Below is a story I was going to delete because it made me feel self centered and is kinda off topic, but I spent 10 minutes?!! writing it, so whatever.

I have no bias against Smash 4 because I actually played it competitively before Melee. Stopped playing Smash 2 years after Brawl released switching over to computer games. Picked Smash 4 up, loved it, played tons of For Glory. THEN I found out my aunt's late husband had a Gamecube and a bunch of games. Jokingly asked my brother if he wanted to 1v1 in this "old ass" Smash Bros game that I hadn't played since I was 8. We were both immediately shocked by how responsive, tight, and advanced the whole thing was. The moment we knew we "struck gold" was when he was expecting to "edge trump" and fell to his death, started looking up differences and Melee mechanics. Edit: We haven't touched Smash 4 since.

 

[PepaCorn]

GenNyan I'm not saying Smash4 players aren't talented, just that they are less talented than Melee players in my opinion.

Clearly ZeRo and Nairo are very talented at their game. But as Leffen once said, he doesn't think many would be good enough for Melee

EDIT: Some people may not like Leffen's trash talk but I definitely respect his opinions

 

[Quarium]

Just try both games, play wichever you enjoy better and feel a bigger drive to improve with. Don't call for opinions on a site like this, it is 90% a bad idea as everyone is biased on some level or another.

Now do the following, play both games and try them out for a respectable amount of time. After getting the general feeling of both games, go ahead and watch some top level matches for both AS WELL as high level ones(not only people in top 8, go down to top 32 and top 64 or even waaay lower too FOR BOTH games so you can see what to expect in all ''above decent'' levels of play in both games.)

After doing all that, judge everything from both an SPECTATOR view and a PLAYER view and think to yourself :

*Wich game is more fun to play.

*Wich game do I like watching more.

*Wich game do I feel better improving at and defeating people at.

*Wich game would I prefer being watched while playing.

*Wich game speed goes better with me.

*Wich game would have me perform more consistenly in.

After that just let your preferences pave the way, it all comes down to trying both and how you feel about them.

I started out HATING Sm4sh in comparison to Melee and 64 but as I kept playing and understanding the game better it really grew on me to the point where I prefer playing Sm4sh competitively while Melee I enjoy more casually! And I ADORE watching any tournament play in both games.

But that's me. You can love one and hate the other, or even play both! but again I MUST stress that you don't look for too many opinions and search for your own conclusions. The internet gives way too much space for unconsequential criticism and uninformed arguments from both the sm4sh/melee side and it isn't healthy for newcomers.

Wichever you end up preferring it's absolutely fine c: Vardamas

 

[Strats]

Asking the Melee forums if SSB4 is better than Melee will more than likely give you a biased answer

 

[Jmoney]

Better is subjective.

But yeah melee is way better.