Melee range on his down air + forward air

[FlynnCL]

It was pretty quickly shown during the direct at 33:14. It happens in the top right 3DS video. The move at half speed in GIF form;

Picture:

14:44 Forward air's range appears to have improved an extreme amount from Brawl, but there appears to be slightly more landing lag?

Picture:

 

[Jackson]

Awesome. Looks like it kinda hits on both sides unlike brawl's bottom and one side. Landing this is always satisfying, now it should be easier.

 

[Shaya]

I didn't spot that in the video, did they give any indication of how much landing lag he has on it?

Here's the brawl comparison. It looks to me like the animation is the same but feasibly the hitbox is coming out earlier (either frame data wise or earlier in the animation) which is good.

 

[Jackson]

Thanks Shaya. Could anyone provide a side by side comparison?

 

[FlynnCL]

Not sure about the full landing lag, as he suffered enough of it to get hit by the Bullet Bill slowly chasing him. I'm guessing it's a lot (fairly usual, then).

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Here's a comparison for his fair.

 

[Jackson]

That hitbox.

 

[Loachy]

Yeah I noticed F-air maybe having more landing lag too. I don't know about range, though. I think the visual effect may just exaggerate the attack's reach, particularly with F-air. I just find it kind of hard to imagine they would make it reach so far above, and even a little behind him.
But who knows; Sakurai works in mysterious ways. Maybe the extra landing lag is to compensate.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I can understand adding landing lag to nerf the utility of f air if they extended the coverage of it's hitbox.

That landing lag can really hurt marth, imo. Hope it's not too bad.

 

[Shaya]

Nerfing forward air is like nerfing freedom.

If the frame data for it is relatively similar to melee/brawl, but the landing lag has been increased, that means there's more emphasis on auto cancelling it (which happens around frame 24? of it) or taking a bit more risk with fast falling it. If shield gets nerfed a bit (attacks on shield are safer) then the landing lag nerf would be justified completely.

 

[Jackson]

If they nerf Fair hard, Marth's bread and butter aerial, he could have a hard time.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I'm guessing it's most likely going to be like Marth's current back air landing lag. Should be fine if it's rising/at the top of the SH. But if you FF it, it lags.

Even if they have this in there, it doesn't have to be all bad. His range is back and I doubt they nerfed the damage or changed the knockback much. His sword is still a pickle, so we can expect priority, naturally. The move clearly comes out as fast as in brawl, if not faster.


It's just that landing lag.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Awwwww yeah

Reverse Fair combos gonna be dope

 

[FlynnCL]

I just wonder if the hitbubbles will actually appear earlier than Brawl. Melee Marth had light beams for virtually the entirety of his sword swings but there were blind spots. While the light beams have been restored back to Melee-esque glory, if they keep the Brawl hitbubbles that'd be really awkward.

Oh, and here's another extremely quick job showing the light beam comparisons from Melee to 4. This is forward tilt;

 

[Oblivion129]

Maybe because Sakurai doesn't want us to spam Fair. He said he made Shield Breaker better because not many people used it. I'm sure Marth will still be awesome.

 

[Zero Requiem]

Really hope we can still fair with out landing lag. We want to annoy our opponents. c:

 

[victinivcreate1]

About the extreme range on fair, right before he does the dair (and before he does up tilt as well) you can see that the forward air's hitbox actually extends beyond the golden bubble that surrounds Marth during his jump. Also, it seems that Marth's dair has a hitbox (or at the very least, lightbeams) at the VERY beginning of the attack. In Melee (and PM for that matter) the lightbeams are also in the beginning of the attack. Marth being able to spike foes very close to him with the beginning of dair confirmed? Even other moves like Dancing Blade and ftilt seem kinda big in terms of range.

 

[Deleted member]

I see the increased landing-lag as a nerf to his f-air. It's still good but it doesn't dominate his playstyle like it did before. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not though, could lead to more mixed styled playstyles then primarily airs.

 

[ぱみゅ]

It *is* a huge nerf.
Or at east it would be.

We're yet to see if that also suffers of something dumb like the RCO lag, or was affected by something else.

 

[Shaya]

Well, if its a brawl styled game, auto cancelled and full hop fairs are a lot more potent than ff fairs usually are; staying in the air gives you more movement and reactive opportunities. We'll see what it means.

 

[FlynnCL]

GIF at 50% speed. The actual ending lag of forward air seems reasonable, though aggressively fast falling the aerial into the ground will give some decent landing lag. I assume it's now exactly like his Brawl back-air, where initiating the aerial along with a short hop will give no landing lag.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Jesus. The range on F-Air looks more beautiful every time I look at these gifs.

 

[Shaya]

Marth's fair would be like, 80-100% auto cancelled there (unless they attend to throw a huge spanner into the works relating to it). So that's not an indication of fair's lag at all, more likely just the fact its a hard landing (the height he's coming from).

 

[FlynnCL]

Marth's fair would be like, 80-100% auto cancelled there (unless they attend to throw a huge spanner into the works relating to it). So that's not an indication of fair's lag at all, more likely just the fact its a hard landing (the height he's coming from).

Mhm, exactly! The GIF isn't capable of demonstrating any possible landing lag (as there would be none) but it does show the entire animation of forward air, including any possible increase in ending lag. Marth appears to have completely finished the animation just half way into his descent.