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Melee mechanics and tech, good or bad?

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Let's hypothesize that Ganondorf somehow beat MK, but all the other match-ups for the two characters remained the same. Ganondorf would still be G tier. MK would still be SS tier. That's because you just wouldn't see that many Ganons, since he'd lose to everyone who wasn't MK. If nothing else, every MK would just have a pocket Sheik. MK would still beat the rest of the cast because he has an overabundance of tools for every situation. He also doesn't really need to commit to landing. Ganondorf is bad almost entirely because he can't use his short hop zoning game, and he doesn't really have the ground range or mobility to make up for his loss of range and power. That's what I mean when I said l-canceling had more to do with Ganon being bad than with MK being good.

Your outburst just didn't accurately capture the impact of l-canceling on the game's balance. Jigglypuff is lightweight and has all sorts of disjointed hitboxes. Look where she sits on the Brawl Tier List. Lucas even moreso.
 

Vkrm

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
1,194
Location
Las Vegas
The character balancing that l cancelling adds could be achieved by tweaking the frame data. I've heard the developers intended for Dorf's. F-air to auto cancel but like many of the other things in brawl, they didn't get it figured out by release. That right there would've made his approaches godlike.
 

standardtoaster

Tubacabra
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
9,253
Location
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
Ganon's fair doesn't autocancel in brawl because they used the wrong timer command for the autocancel to happen. Because of this, it doesn't tell the game to autocancel fair until like 30 frames after the animation is over. You're right though, they definitely should have caught that before release.
 

Acryte

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
986
L-cancelling adds to the physical ability to perform under limited timeframes (split second decisions) or in difficult situations. It's part of the whole gaming element of hand-eye coordination. The game tests multiple types of skill... strategic abilities, the ability to adapt, as well as your physical ability to perform and execute under pressure. L-Cancels provide an opportunity for vulnerability that won't be there from simply reducing landing lag for all aerials by half... and guess when most people most often make mistakes? IT'S WHEN THEY ARE UNDER PRESSURE. Tournament pressure, being trapped in a bad position, etc. It's an opportunity that could earn you a stock or cost you one depending on which side of the missed L-Cancel you are on AND depending on if your opponent's reflexes are fast enough to capitalize on the mistake. The repercussions can be fatal, so it's not as if it doesn't hold sway in a match (AKA being extraneous due to lack of impact on matches).

"So rather than being punished for a strategic error, the player gets punished because a finger slipped?"

Exactly. In basketball, if you foul someone who makes a shot, not only does he get the points for the basket, and a free throw, but the other player is also issued a foul. Why give them the point if they hit the shot, the foul penalty should be enough in itself... they are triple punished. More importantly, why not just give them the point and not have them shoot the free throw? In basketball, the free throw is there because hell, at the end of the game you can't just give them the points, it's a physical sport and they have to be able to make the shot. It's not solely a game of strategy, it has a performance element to it as well. If someone messes up something even as routine as dribbling, it can still become a turnover that could cost them the game. It exists as a routine performance element that when messed up provides an opportunity for vulnerability that isn't there by simply reducing all landing lag of aerials by half...

Hand-eye coordination, physical performance, mental performance, and endurance. This isn't just a game of Chess where your physical ability to perform a move under pressure doesn't come into play, where it is mainly an issue of mental performance and stamina. Just like competitive sports, a physical aspect helps make the game even better because it's not just about whether you are smart enough, but also whether you can go out there and execute your strategies... and that in my opinion is what makes this game so great.
 

Pawls to the Wall

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
235
Location
____Houston, Texas____ Posts: 1,071 +
L-canceling is necessary! If every player performed these advanced techniques perfectly, there would be way too much endless pressure and combos. In melee, players are allowed to make mistakes, and then the opponent is allowed to punish. I play my shooters with auto-aim off. Why? There's no point to not aiming, right? Wouldn't that just make it much less fun? Improving your technical skill to wow your opponents is one of the things I enjoy so much about smash.
 
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