Melee HD: would you REALLY want it?

[lordvaati]

well, it's 2016 now guys, and this year marks something special-the upcoming 15th anniversary of the Nintendo Gamecube, and along with that Super Smash Bros. Melee. with an almost guaranteed announcement of the NX at this year's E3, The chances of something being done for the Cube are VERY high-even something as simple as a compilation disc or the inevitable virtual console updates. Which brings me back to Melee-one popular(maybe joking?) request made by some is for an HD remake of the game for Wii-U(or in this case NX now), which would be cool but has got me recalling something else.

14 years after it's release, Super Street Fighter II Turbo got a new update(excluding the compilation Hyper and the GBA port) named Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix. this game had all the original 17 characters rebalanced, was developed by David freaking Sirlin, and all the art redrawn by staff from Udon. the game was a huge financial success on XBLA and PSN. it was a critical darling, amassing some of the highest scores seen for a fighting game since Soul Calibur.

despite all this, the majority of the ST community stuck with the 94 game.

this is what worry about-people say thy want an HD Melee, but do they really? to make it would inevitably mean tweaks to the core game, so would anyone actually move on or just stick with the tried and true GC version? And even a VC release makes me wonder about a move being doubtful-64 got released on VC(with GC controller support even!) but hardly anyone plays it either(thought it was more due to slowdown issues I believe.)


So I wonder, if a Melee update was announced this year is some shape and form, would you even want it?

 

[WinterShorts]

I'd actually think it be cool to get a remake of melee like you described, if it was an entirely new take or not. Though I feel the need to say that with all the devotion we put into melee for more than a decade, I think there would be quite a group of people who would still prefer melee than the possible hd remake.

Like, take a look at Project M: it seemed like the better melee (for me, it was, and can we please leave that as a separate discussion and not here, thank you), but despite the current state it's in, hardly being streamed due to copyright reasons and other things, people just thought melee was just more rewarding. We even had hacks like Melee SD remix, which never was that popular, and Smash 4 didn't bring back the majority of what melee had.

So yeah, I'd be willing to try such a game (as should everyone else if it was a new Smash game made by Nintendo), but several times the community preferred melee over the newer game for certain reasons, so i'd think the pattern follows.

Also, chances are if Sakurai was in charge again, I'm pretty sure he'd so something casual-like to the original melee engine.

 

[CptJPuff]

lol, no. Melee "remakes" are doomed to become terrible memes.

A 1:1 (exact, no online or anything fancy added/edited) v1.2 VC release would be nice. I highly doubt Nintendo will do that though, because it's more than likely not going to be profitable.

However, if Nintendo did pull through with it, it would probably only sell well among the hardcore Melee fanbase. And I think we can safely assume that only a small portion of people who actively participate in the Melee community actually own a Wii U.

Also, it more than likely wouldn't sell well among Nintendo's general (casual) consumers because:
1. You can't play with friends online
2. Smash 4 in General, less content than Smash 4
3. "No tournaments"

 

[EPsilon933]

ST is preferred over HDR, but HDR is still a really good game. The differences are very subtle and something only the competitive players would notice. I'm not entirely familiar with the complaints about HDR, but I recall that players didn't like the input command and character balance changes. Some say that HDR is just as unbalanced as ST, with just a reordered tier list

Another problem about HDR was that it was too late to update the game's balance. SF2 was no longer the main SF to play competitively and the community and metagame were too deeply established on the ST version of that game. The game did bring some new players to the scene, but it had to compete against a sequel (SF4) that too many players played in its own series. Also, the graphics and art style suck compared to SF4

Melee doesn't have the problem of sequels replacing it. A 1:1 rerelease of the game would help boost the tournament scene's popularity because a significant portion of players don't think Brawl/4 were/are good enough to convert too. The scene's well established enough on its own to support itself to keep new players invested

 

[Diosama]

Nintendo knows that the reason we love Melee is because it is Melee. The problem with making a Melee HD (the same game, updated graphics) is how niche it would be. Have you ever considered how many people play Melee in this day and age? That's pretty much the maximum number of sales it would get, which isn't a lot.

 

[gmBottles]

Do we really want another "Do you want Melee HD" thread though?

 

[Treedot]

If ALL it was was an HD remake of Melee, and NOTHING ELSE was changed, it might be alright. Although, tournaments would be more annoying because they would need GameCube adapters and non-CRT tv's and Wii U's and who wants all that.

However, Sakurai tends to... Mess with things... sometimes.

I have a feeling they would try to "balance" it, and ruin everything, and no one would play it, and it would end up with a smaller fanbase than 64 or Brawl.

I'm happy with what we have.

 

[Spak]

I don't want to have a Melee HD remake; I want to have 5mash on the next home console to have Melee's mechanics. But as long as Sakurai is in development, that won't happen.

Here's Sakurai telling us himself that he doesn't want to release a game as technical as Melee again:

"I had created Smash Bros. to be my response to how hardcore-exclusive the fighting game genre had become over the years, but why did I target it so squarely toward people well-versed in videogames, then? That's why I tried to aim for more of a happy medium with Brawl's play balance. There are three Smash Bros. games out now, but even if I ever had a chance at another one, I doubt we'll ever see one that's as geared toward hardcore gamers as Melee was. Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult."

He said "Melee is the sharpest game in the series" so he's obviously happy with the way it turned out, but he still thinks gearing the gameplay towards hardcore gamers was a mistake.

(Source)

 

[Treedot]

What does he mean by "too difficult"?

 

[Spak]

What does he mean by "too difficult"?

I assume he means "too difficult" as in the game is too fast and technical. That's presumably why he made Brawl and Sm4sh slower and more floaty, and removed a bunch of mechanics (so that the game would be easier).

 

[EPsilon933]

Smash is already by far an easy game to learn. It's so intuitive. Any casual can learn how to play

Also, didn't Sakurai say that he no longer wanted to lead another Smash game's development after 4 or something along those lines? I have no idea what the source could be. This is purely from vague memory

 

[Treedot]

Smash is already by far an easy game to learn. It's so intuitive. Any casual can learn how to play

Also, didn't Sakurai say that he no longer wanted to lead another Smash game's development after 4 or something along those lines? I have no idea what the source could be. This is purely from vague memory

After both Melee and Brawl he said he didn't think he would work on Smash games anymore.

 

[lordvaati]

He only really came back to 4 because Iwata asked him to, and since they were longtime friends he agreed. But now with Iwata's passing, on top of the stress he had to deal with mentally and physically working on this installment, when he said that Smash will go on but it will probably be his last I think he means it.

besides, last thing anyone wants is for someone to be stuck on a project when they wanna explore new ventures for eternity.

 

[NoviceSmasher]

if they were to remake melee they would have to do some serious balancing work, and i dont think hardcore melee fans would take to that kindly, the only way it could work is if a melee player was hired to suggest balances to the game (akin to combofiend with SFV)

 

[Ed94]

Well, from my eyes, there will never be an MeleeHD that I would really want from Nintendo, as they continue their backwards ways when it comes to handling video game communities, and their practices.

IF Nintendo re releases Melee it would not be a VC release. Sakurai and the investors would not let that happen. Sakurai would not want it since it would mean even a minute benefit for the most hardcore area of the smash community, and be like ★shinning☆ a spotlight on gameplay he has been trying to marginalize for years now. Investors would not want it for the sole reason, that there are far more profitable ways of releasing such a cult classic that sold so well on its original release.

If Nintendo re releases Melee it would be an "HD remake of the game" it would have widescreen support, and have the cast rebalanced(based on how the gameplay was originally intended). Sakurai will make sure to patch the **** out of the game mechanics this community loves so much.

Worst part is the players who had any chance of coming from Smash 4 casually will not first see Melee as the game we see it as in a more competetive sense. They will instead see the above through some For Glory BS ranked online play from such a re release, and will have a new Sakurai Meta, featuring jank you would not want to see as acceptable, nor lay eyes upon while your alive playing melee. I'm talking about things that will make the supposed jank people like to rage at from Luigi, Ganon, and ICie mains look as honorable as M2K's Marth.


The community will only accept one thing eventually out of necessity in the future for logistical reasons, and that is a MeleeHD emulated through the PC. There was already a tournament held recently I believe that had project m and melee both on PCs. Its also already been proven to be a viable alternative to run melee that is essentially as lagless on a proper setup as a gamecube console setup for melee.

Here are the reasons why MeleeHD will also be competetively happening on PCs:

• Melee discs are no longer made, unless we acquire a machinery, such as a 3d printer that can mass produce new gc sized discs that can be read by a gc. So were screwed here since, through the savagery of time, the discs we have will wear out, and many in this period have already been scratched, cracked, snapped, set on fire, you name it, its probably happened to one. So we need to be able to just have it on the pc. This makes the ones that are left expensive as we all know, and most newcomers do not have a melee discs so they get it through means that are not considered appropriate.
• CRT's can be used on even modern PCs so long as you have proper converters that have sub millisecond lag. Even not CRT's provided they have a high enough frequency(144hz+ I believe), can play melee essentially lagless. Though the latter option is expensive now, it wont be in a couple of years given the way technology has been developing for decades. This allows for a higher variety of setups to play Melee that do not require a even a Gamecube or Wii.
• We get to decide what and what is not allowed in competetive form of MeleeHD. Since lets face it MeleeHD already exists, its just not widely accepted by the community and there is no standard other than for dolphin netplay which is just the original melee with netplay community codes.(Its really fun to....you should join if you haven't already.....please?)

A way that it would possibly happen could be like this:

1. MeleeHD first is tested out in small local tournaments. This has already started to happen. Will most likely be used exclusively with CRT displays with the rare 144hz monitor setup for the streaming setups that will also be used for top 8. These setups may be tested along side 20xxTE as it develops from its initial shipment of cards and people mess with it both on the gc/wii and dolphin.
2. After a year from now, pc setups will become more popular maybe even be used at monthlys, or a minor regional. 20xxTE will most likely be more widespread given its adherence to a strict memcard only approach and being extremely simple with a prepackage set delivered straight from Dan Salvato himself.
3. Around 2018-2020, we will be nearing, or at melee's 20 years of age. If Sakurai is still doing smash, were not going to have the chance to get Smash 5 as the game to finally be Melee 2.0. The community will most likely grow with smash 4 leading the general smash player base, and Melee hosting a larger competitive player base that has seen benefit from more EVO's and the like. regionals will now regularly use MeleeHD via PC at least in pools to help cope with the higher turnouts at tournaments. Nationals will most likely however still use wii/gc only setups since they are capable of doing so. The only time 20xxte will not be used at this point is at EVO and the equivalent due to publicity and avoiding any aggression from Nintendo. (Ideally project m will still be around growing from the ashes, but may never see a true national again unless they are able to come up with they're own.)
4. Far Future: If the smash Melee scene survives this long and it most likely will, using wii/gc at locals will be rare. Monthlys will only use them for maybe a third of their setups. With only Large nationals able to muster enough consoles and warrant to bring together the traditional setups. Most of the community will be playing online through netplay.
5. The year is ☆☆★★; Nintendo may have finally reformed itself through the ages to take on the approach most of the gaming industry started to take to the competitive seen in the 2010s and make a worthy successor to Melee and given it revised GC controllers allow for easier execution and thus consistency.

 

[-ACE-]

I wonder if melee HD would be cheaper, or what its presence would do to regular melee disc/equipment prices.

 

[Notshane]

I know this is bumping an old thread about Melee, and I mean REALLY old by this point, but I feel there is no need to spam up the forum with more "What Would Melee HD Be Like" threads. I assume this is the most current thread on it, so I will just post my thoughts here instead.

Anyway, the thing about Sakurai is that he was originally going to make a better Melee, before Brawl. It was essentially Melee online with better balancing, but he was not going to remove all the other mechanics of the game. And Sakurai loves this series, knows that Melee fans play it for what it is and would not sh*t all over its mechanics if he remade it. I just could not see him being the kind of guy to do that.

Granted, YES, he did change them in Brawl and Sm4sh, but Sakurai is also somebody whom is usually faithful to the projects he works on. As such, I imagine he might do something similar to, say, that Guardian Heroes remake. He will have it in the options that you can select yourself. You can select "Original" which is raw Melee (the most recent version probably) or "Remix" which balances the fighters (not a bad idea if you ask me), but I assume it would not remove wavedashing or the fast mechanics. However, I can see him having that as an option to turn off, for the players that have grown accustomed to dodging that way, alongside the floaty nature. That would be a really cool idea, as it appeals to both fan bases.

I feel this is a big stretch, a VERY BIG stretch, yes, but I can see Sakurai wanting to cater to the fans of Melee and he probably knows why they love it. He wouldn't remake the game just to take a big crap on it. Even Sakurai would know that re-releasing Melee that way would make it no different than Sm4sh and he probably would not want it to be that at all, since he aims for originality in his works and realizes that would probably make no money. He knew Sm4sh was going to be a huge hit because it was the first HD entry, combined with it also being portable (though that was a double-edged sword in that it screwed the content of the game entirely, that is a topic for a Sm4sh thread), and he wanted to go all out.

Spoiler

Which begs the question, WHY THE HELL DID HE NOT ADD MORE CHARACTERS?! If this was truly the last entry, he should have gone all out on it with maybe adding every stage the series has had up to this point, alongside returning as many veterans as possible, even Pichu. By this point, they've embraced clones, so why not? Lucina is basically copy and paste Marth, well Pichu at least had one different move.

And, well, the game sold well. Very well, actually.

I don't know, maybe it is just me, but I feel he wouldn't tarnish the mechanics if he remade Melee. I can see him trying to stay faithful to the game and, at the very least, would default the game to the "Remix" mode but for sure leave in the "Original" mode as an option.

 

[Mr Snak3_]

Community split flashbacks,
melee hd could fix the Pokemon stadium but it might fix yoshi's dash grab, and also make fod non laggy, but might be pal and remove meteor cancelling,
I'd want a carbon copy with nothing different from 1.02 ntsc

 

[Notshane]

Community split flashbacks,
melee hd could fix the Pokemon stadium but it might fix yoshi's dash grab, and also make fod non laggy, but might be pal and remove meteor cancelling,
I'd want a carbon copy with nothing different from 1.02 ntsc

IMO, you should be happy if he even does my idea at all, rather than complaining about that. If you want it to be a carbon copy, just ask for it on Virtual Console. Or, just play it on Nintendont.

 

[Mr Snak3_]

Wh

IMO, you should be happy if he even does my idea at all, rather than complaining about that. If you want it to be a carbon copy, just ask for it on Virtual Console. Or, just play it on Nintendont.

what makes you think I don't play it on nintendont? Plus my main concern is the cancerous online of tr4sh would move over to online melee, sound like anther's ladder?

 

[Delta Chae]

IMO, you should be happy if he even does my idea at all, rather than complaining about that. If you want it to be a carbon copy, just ask for it on Virtual Console. Or, just play it on Nintendont.

I really can't stand this type of attitude "You should be grateful if you get it all, stop acting entitled". Fans may not be entitled to input over the development of a game but they are entitled to the money in their own wallets while the company that makes the games is not. If the company wants that money then they have to create a product that fans feel is worth spending their money on. Given that the majority of the audience that would buy Melee HD is the competitive crowd and that casuals are unlikely to care, nothing less than a 1:1 remaster of 1.02 will suffice in this case. Changing the physics to be more Brawl-like or removing many of the features that Melee is known for is a surefire way to ensure that the game is a failure before (If) it ever releases.

 

[YamiFury]

It'd certainly prolong the life of Melee.

 

[Slip33]

If it was the same Melee just with HD graphics, I have to say no. I wouldn't see the point if it, without character balance changes.

 

[Delta Chae]

If it was the same Melee just with HD graphics, I have to say no. I wouldn't see the point if it, without character balance changes.

The game being ported to a newer platform would eliminate the need to lug CRTs to every tournament we go to as well as solve the problem of a limited supply of discs.

 

[JayE]

Melee HD would be great to see, but if it was just Melee with better graphics... then maybe not. I would want changes to characters. Doesn't have to be drastic changes, perhaps some slight nerfs to top tiers and buffs to lower tiers, so there could be more viable fighters. On the other hand, imagine if Melee HD did happen, it would make all the Melee fanboys even more annoying. If there were balnce changes, then the community probably would argue what version to play or something like that. The game would benefit from some changes (in my opinion) I mean, you should play games because they're fun, not because of what they look like. But thats not saying that a graphical upgrade wouldn't be nice.
I wouldn't be mad if Melee got a HD version.

 

[Notshane]

Melee HD would be great to see, but if it was just Melee with better graphics... then maybe not. I would want changes to characters. Doesn't have to be drastic changes, perhaps some slight nerfs to top tiers and buffs to lower tiers, so there could be more viable fighters. On the other hand, imagine if Melee HD did happen, it would make all the Melee fanboys even more annoying. If there were balnce changes, then the community probably would argue what version to play or something like that. The game would benefit from some changes (in my opinion) I mean, you should play games because they're fun, not because of what they look like. But thats not saying that a graphical upgrade wouldn't be nice.
I wouldn't be mad if Melee got a HD version.

And if all else fails, let them choose between the original balance and the new balance. That way, no crowds are alienated.

 

[Delta Chae]

And if all else fails, let them choose between the original balance and the new balance. That way, no crowds are alienated.

Unfortunately that would actually cause more issues than it would solve. It would split the community between those who want the original balance and those who want the new balance to be tournament standard. We saw this happen with the BlazBlue community when Chronophantasma Extend was released and the Smash community would only be worse due to being much bigger.

 

[iAmMatt]

Is it time to revive this thread because nintendo switch?

 

[gmBottles]

Is it time to revive this thread because nintendo switch?

If you can't plug in a Gamecube controller then it is a lost cause.

 

[Synnett]

If you can't plug in a Gamecube controller then it is a lost cause.

Maybe they'll stick with that adapter. Hopefully because I won't be able to use the new controller, the right stick is too low for my thumb. And I'd love seeing new GC controllers, hopefully they'd be better then the Sm4sh ones lmao.

This said, I would not like a Melee HD, as it's too easy to mess up. But a new Smash game with Melee's mechanics? Let's go. They could make it their esports game.

 

[Rpggames77]

This said, I would not like a Melee HD, as it's too easy to mess up. But a new Smash game with Melee's mechanics? Let's go. They could make it their esports game.

i feel the exact same way

 

[Chaos_Knight]

If Melee HD were to happen, how would you react if it received a massive balance patch?

 

[Rpggames77]

If Melee HD were to happen, how would you react if it received a massive balance patch?

then it really wouldn't be melee hd