Mega Man's Moveset Utility

[Mythzotick]

First off, I would like to thank Megamang for helping me by sharing his thoughts and ideas and @--- for giving me the green light to create this thread.

Now, this was originally going to be a tier list on Mega Man's moves. But the more I thought about it after what Megamang had said, the more I realized that it wouldn't help us out much and instead would take away one of the things that truly makes Mega Man special in this game and that of course is his versatility.

Mega Man is without of a doubt, one of the most unique fighters in the entire roster and a large part of it has to do with the fact that he just seems to have an option/answer for almost every situation imaginable such as...

• Combos/Followups
• Zoning
• Anti-Airs
• Shield Pressuring
• Frame Trapping
• Kill Setups
• Edge Guarding
• B-Reverse Mixups
• Disjointed Hitboxes
• Moves With Invincibility Frames
• Punishes
• Camping

So, when you factor in that almost all, if not, all of Mega Man's moves do at least one of these options to go along with how much mobility the blue bomber has in the air and having really good advanced techniques, you get. KING DEDEDE!!! Just kidding.
You actually get a character who is prepared for almost any scenario. However though, that is only 1/3 of the equation.

Like in all of the Classic Mega Man games, each weapon has it's own pros and cons for certain levels and boss fights as well as the fact that some weapons and items are better than others. The same applies to Smash 4 as you have Mega Man, the other character(s), and the stage.

Now, just because a certain move is really good against Character A on Stage A, that doesn't exactly mean it will be just as effective against Character A on Stage B or against Character B on Stage A. Instead, that move could be less effective while another could be SUPER EFFECTIVE!

In the end, I kind of want this to be a thread where we mainly just talk about how often we should use a certain move and if we should use said move against a particular character, stage, in general, etc.

EDIT: I also want to thank @Yink for approving as well.

 

[Mega-Spider]

It's like I said a few times before: Mega Man's the Smash Bros equivalent of Calculus: Extremely complex and is a step by step process to understand and master.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Versus Villager: Metal Blades!
Versus Bowser: Air Shooter!

 

[BugDoctor]

Mega Slide seems to be the best answer for quick smashes that we can't punish otherwise. For example, I used to try and punish Mario's missed up-smash with a grab if I was close enough, but would often get hit anyway because Mario can just throw out another attack quickly enough. However, if you use dtilt instead, you can slide in for a small punish that also pops your opponent away and gives you some room to breathe. I've found this to be a good answer for a lot of characters' quicker smashes, and it's also not too risky.

I'll have more to add in this topic later! Seems like it'll be a good discussion!

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

For character with slow air speed and slow fall speed sh uairs can juggle them for a long time once they lose their double jump like d3.

This thread is not set up correctly I think. There are way too many scenarios and combinations for them all to be listed.

Fsmash for edgeguarding cloud.
Leaf shield footstools for low recovering captain, ganon, and others that don't have a hit box recovery.
Runoff fair for edgeguarding Mario and a few others....... And on and on and on

 

[JesusMorpheus]

I was going to post a thread concerning metal blade, but i think i can put it here since it fits what i would have asked more or less. I randomly had a thought about an edgeguard set up at 4 a.m. so before forgetting, i ran to my wii u while it was fresh in my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpduuUabaCo At around 12 seconds you'll see what i mean.

Not the whole match but thankfully it captured what i wanted to discuss. Do you guys think turnaround metal blade offstage to bair would be a good option against characters who will usually recover low (Falcon, Mario, Duck Hunt, and Olimar come to mind but i'm sure it can work on many others given the situation)? I haven't seen anyone use it to my knowledge. It would have to be a trick though since it probably will only work on a good player once only but i can see it being decently good as a mix up as it is pretty out of nowhere but fishing for it will only be bad. What do you guys think?

 

[Nu~]

One part that's lacking in mega man's gameplan is a strong combo game. Because of this, mega man tends to get out damaged rather easily.
Due to the unique nature of his moveset, I think mega man may have a lot of unconventional combos that we have yet to tap into.


https://youtu.be/mKv57_1xWfE
Start at 21:37

This is what I'm talking about.

 

[Mega-Spider]

One part that's lacking in mega man's gameplan is a strong combo game. Because of this, mega man tends to get out damaged rather easily.
Due to the unique nature of his moveset, I think mega man may have a lot of unconventional combos that we have yet to tap into.


https://youtu.be/mKv57_1xWfE
Start at 21:37

This is what I'm talking about.

Well, Megs is a zoner character, a type of character that's not known for combos. That's not to say Megs doesn't have combos, but compared to the likes of characters like Mario or Sheik, Megs doesn't have that many.
I like to compare Megs' damage output to a small knife. It won't do the most damage, but over time, the damage will catch up to you. It's slow and intricate, but it gets the job done.
Megs has a lot of set up options, and a lot of them are starting to become uncovered, a reason why this character's meta is so interesting.

 

[Nu~]

Well, Megs is a zoner character, a type of character that's not known for combos. That's not to say Megs doesn't have combos, but compared to the likes of characters like Mario or Sheik, Megs doesn't have that many.
I like to compare Megs' damage output to a small knife. It won't do the most damage, but over time, the damage will catch up to you. It's slow and intricate, but it gets the job done.
Megs has a lot of set up options, and a lot of them are starting to become uncovered, a reason why this character's meta is so interesting.

Oh I understand that mega man isn't exactly a combo character (Zoners are my favorite archetype to use...hence why I used to use pacman and villager) I just see some potential for more damage strings in the future.

I understand that the point of mega man isn't to get in and deal all his damage from long combos, but I do think that mega man has ways to start some strong combos from setups off of safe moves like the other zoners in this game. (mainly pacman, toon link, and Marth)
For example, Pac-Man has countless other flaws that make him a worse character than mega man, but he does have strong combos off of his zoning tools. Something mega man can use


Kamemushi and ScAtt have the powerful zoning aspect of mega man down, but I think both of them could improve even more if they started to investigate his combo options more like stylesX2. We all know that he isn't nearly as good as those two, but he has put a lot of effort into extending mega man's combo game.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Oh I understand that mega man isn't exactly a combo character (Zoners are my favorite archetype to use...hence why I used to use pacman and villager) I just see some potential for more damage strings in the future.

I understand that the point of mega man isn't to get in and deal all his damage from long combos, but I do think that mega man has ways to start some strong combos from setups off of safe moves like the other zoners in this game. (mainly pacman, toon link, and Marth)
For example, Pac-Man has countless other flaws that make him a worse character than mega man, but he does have strong combos off of his zoning tools. Something mega man can use


Kamemushi and ScAtt have the powerful zoning aspect of mega man down, but I think both of them could improve even more if they started to investigate his combo options more like stylesX2. We all know that he isn't nearly as good as those two, but he has put a lot of effort into extending mega man's combo game.

Styles is fun to watch, but I'd be lying if I said he wasn't anything more than just good. He's good, but not great. Still, I admire his combo options.

 

[Nu~]

Styles is fun to watch, but I'd be lying if I said he wasn't anything more than just good. He's good, but not great. Still, I admire his combo options.

It's telling that he still hasn't made it out of pools in a national...

 

[Mythzotick]

One part that's lacking in mega man's gameplan is a strong combo game. Because of this, mega man tends to get out damaged rather easily.
Due to the unique nature of his moveset, I think mega man may have a lot of unconventional combos that we have yet to tap into.


https://youtu.be/mKv57_1xWfE
Start at 21:37

This is what I'm talking about.

Yes, it is easy for the other character(s) to output more damage than us due to our nature alone and it is a noticeable flaw, but if they can't get in, then it doesn't matter as much as 2%, 4%, 7%, etc., is more damage than being untouched. I'm not saying this always happens because it doesn't lol, but if a combo heavy oriented character is struggling to finding a way to get in against a zoner as good as Mega Man, then you can afford to take in 40%-80% worth of damage if you've already piled up the same amount of damage or more prior to that.

I hate to say it because I have a lot of pride when it comes to this, but I think we need to accept that being really lame sometimes is an option that can be extremely viable against certain top tiers/high tiers and that's okay to do if it get's the job done. I remember watching ScAtt doing an interview after winning Xanadu 154 which took place in Maryland, and he mentioned that we should maybe try doing more "Rush Camping" since we can bounce on Rush twice while still maintaining our second jump, and we can spawn Rush again if you use it on the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPIkS44gnBw

To save some time if you only want to hear ScAtt talk about Rush Camping, it starts at around 3:28-5:05.

One thing that I love about Mega Man's combo game is that it can be a lot more creative and unconventional compared to ones like d-throw>u-tilt>u-tilt>u-tilt>u-tilt>u-tilt>u-tilt>uair>uar>uair>uair>up-b (brownie points if anyone can guess which character I'm talking about even if it's pretty obvious ).

I like to compare Megs' damage output to a small knife. It won't do the most damage, but over time, the damage will catch up to you. It's slow and intricate, but it gets the job done.

A knife that's been dipped in poison.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Mythzotick I feel that Rush Camping can be pretty discouraging, since it makes us look pathetic. Then again, considering that characters like Sonic and Sheik had some BS, and seeing as how Rush Camping isn't BS, I'm down to being lame.

 

[Nu~]

Yes, it is easy for the other character(s) to output more damage than us due to our nature alone and it is a noticeable flaw, but if they can't get in, then it doesn't matter as much as 2%, 4%, 7%, etc., is more damage than being untouched. I'm not saying this always happens because it doesn't lol, but if a combo heavy oriented character is struggling to finding a way to get in against a zoner as good as Mega Man, then you can afford to take in 40%-80% worth of damage if you've already piled up the same amount of damage or more prior to that.

I hate to say it because I have a lot of pride when it comes to this, but I think we need to accept that being really lame sometimes is an option that can be extremely viable against certain top tiers/high tiers and that's okay to do if it get's the job done. I remember watching ScAtt doing an interview after winning Xanadu 154 which took place in Maryland, and he mentioned that we should maybe try doing more "Rush Camping" since we can bounce on Rush twice while still maintaining our second jump, and we can spawn Rush again if you use it on the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPIkS44gnBw

To save some time if you only want to hear ScAtt talk about Rush Camping, it starts at around 3:28-5:05.

One thing that I love about Mega Man's combo game is that it can be a lot more creative and unconventional compared to ones like d-throw>u-tilt>u-tilt>u-tilt>u-tilt>u-tilt>u-tilt>uair>uar>uair>uair>up-b (brownie points if anyone can guess which character I'm talking about even if it's pretty obvious ).



A knife that's been dipped in poison.

I really respect this.

The smash community gives defensive play too much flak. The average player just wants to rush in "guns a blazin'" and press buttons for instant gratification. Anyone who plays defensively is harassed.
Few people realize the depth behind defensive play and even fewer players are willing to mix defensive play into their offensive play.



I also absolutely agree with you that mega man's combo game leaves a ton of room for creativity.
Every combo he has is interesting and unconventional unlike the "rinse and repeat" combo game of a top tier like Diddy Kong.


While I don't exactly like the idea of rush camping since it takes away the depth of mega man's neutral, it may be a viable strategy.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Nu~ Not to crap on other players, but seeing the same BnB Mario, Cloud, Diddy Kong routine gets extremely boring. Mega Man actually has some interesting combos and strategies under his belt.

 

[Nu~]

Nu~ Not to crap on other players, but seeing the same BnB Mario, Cloud, Diddy Kong routine gets extremely boring. Mega Man actually has some interesting combos and strategies under his belt.

Well I'm really glad I'm not the only one who gets bored to death of diddy kong's uthrow -> Bair all match lol.

 

[Mythzotick]

Mythzotick I feel that Rush Camping can be pretty discouraging, since it makes us look pathetic. Then again, considering that characters like Sonic and Sheik had some BS, and seeing as how Rush Camping isn't BS, I'm down to being lame.

I feel the exact same way man. Just the thought of it sounds really weak and completely dishonorable. But you know, if your opponent is being really disrespectful yet is losing to you and there is not much time left, you could give them a sweat taste of their own medicine. I don't recommend it, but I'll I'm trying to say is that Rush Camping is a thing so...

I really respect this.

The smash community gives defensive play too much flak. The average player just wants to rush in "guns a blazin'" and press buttons for instant gratification. Anyone who plays defensively is harassed.
Few people realize the depth behind defensive play and even fewer players are willing to mix defensive play into their offensive play.



I also absolutely agree with you that mega man's combo game leaves a ton of room for creativity.
Every combo he has is interesting and unconventional unlike the "rinse and repeat" combo game of a top tier like Diddy Kong.


While I don't exactly like the idea of rush camping since it takes away the depth of mega man's neutral, it may be a viable strategy.

The cold hard truth is that the average player that is more offensive based tends to get really mad towards players that play more defensively because they want to style on you and they can't because they don't know how to deal with zoning or camping well since usually defensive players are more calm and cool collected while offensive players are more hyper aggressive and tend to get reckless at times.

Regarding to Mega Man's combo game, I still feel that there is a lot of untapped potential left even when were discovering things like the Kamemushi combo. I can't wait how much more fleshed out the blue bomber will be in the long distance future.

 

[Megamang]

I really like the c-stick nair out of a dthrow as a combo starter.

Learning to hit nairs when moving fully towards someone is a great setup. It might not be a true combo, but if you notice something like they DI-d up on a nair and don't have a great landing option/burst movement, come in with a grab. Or, metal blade their landing! There are lots of options really.

I think the idea of this thread is there, but we need a different execution. We could talk about a couple of moves at a time, then move on in a week.


For example, Ive been really loving the back hitbox of fair. During my aerial weaving, sometimes Ill fall backwards like im going to do a very unsafe bair, which should force a shield. Instead, I do a fair facing the 'wrong' way but land with the hitbox and slide behind them. On shield, I slide safely behind them. On hit, quickly turning around and jumping can land another fair, or you could just bair, or chuck a metal blade at their landing.


And on and on. Focusing on a move or two at a time could lead to some interesting sharing. I think we all know to zone with pellets. But if you have a unique usage for a move you don't think others have considered, please share.

 

[Wreck33]

Sh thrown leaf shield to bair and drop down from ledge to jump item thrown MB to uptilt.

 

[Wumpy007]

I really respect this.

The smash community gives defensive play too much flak. The average player just wants to rush in "guns a blazin'" and press buttons for instant gratification. Anyone who plays defensively is harassed.
Few people realize the depth behind defensive play and even fewer players are willing to mix defensive play into their offensive play.



I also absolutely agree with you that mega man's combo game leaves a ton of room for creativity.
Every combo he has is interesting and unconventional unlike the "rinse and repeat" combo game of a top tier like Diddy Kong.


While I don't exactly like the idea of rush camping since it takes away the depth of mega man's neutral, it may be a viable strategy.

The problem w defensive play is that if everyone played defensive all the time ,90% of matches would go to the clock, and half the matches would end w both playerson either side of the map spamming projectiles. Defensive player s deserve every bit of harrassment they recieve, theres nothing "in depth" about running from ur opponent till u see a grab opportunity. Not saying theres not times when playing defensive doesn't benefit, but in all truth nothing would get done if ppl only played defensive.

 

[Nu~]

The problem w defensive play is that if everyone played defensive all the time ,90% of matches would go to the clock, and half the matches would end w both playerson either side of the map spamming projectiles. Defensive player s deserve every bit of harrassment they recieve, theres nothing "in depth" about running from ur opponent till u see a grab opportunity. Not saying theres not times when playing defensive doesn't benefit, but in all truth nothing would get done if ppl only played defensive.

That is a very simplistic interpretation of what defensive play is. There's no use going further into this discussion until you broaden your understanding of the playstyle.


"Deserve their harassment"
Lol ok bud. And when did I say people should only play defensively?

 

[Wumpy007]

That is a very simplistic interpretation of what defensive play is. There's no use going further into this discussion until you broaden your understanding of the playstyle.


"Deserve their harassment"
Lol ok bud. And when did I say people should only play defensively?

I bet 90% of ur matches go to the clock XD, nuff said, no use in going any further in this discussion

 

[Nu~]

I bet 90% of ur matches go to the clock XD, nuff said, no use in going any further in this discussion

A childish reply as expected lol.

But aight man. Dueces

 

[Wumpy007]

A childish reply as expected lol.

But aight man. Dueces

Sorry man u asked for it, plz tell me what Im missing about defensive play, what great mystery does it entail that I seem to be missing?

 

[Wreck33]

@Wumpy rofl get outta here

 

[JesusMorpheus]

Feels like the only people who understand defensive play are those who utilize it well or have been playing against it for many years. You'll probably just interpret anything we say as 'being too slow and annoying people and just playing cowardly' so i won't even bother trying to explain it lmao Wumpy007

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Sorry man u asked for it, plz tell me what Im missing about defensive play, what great mystery does it entail that I seem to be missing?

Defensive play is all about reading your opponent's habits and working around them to get punishes. It's not just "spam projectiles and fish for grab." Each projectile should have a thought out purpose, even if that purpose isnt obvious. For example, when I'm shooting a bunch of pellets, I'm not just spamming pellets and hoping it works, I think about where I want to control space based on what my opponent has done in the past. Against players that stay grounded Ill fire two pellets low and one high to cover jump, against aerial opponents, I fire one very high, one high, and one grounded so they hit each one on the way down, or I try to read their movement patterns and block their intended path with pellets. Mindless spam is easy to beat, well thought out, defensive projectile play is not. Your over-simplification of defensive play leads me to believe that you get wrecked by defensive play styles, and that someone timed you out once and you're super salty about it.

 

[Mega-Spider]

Defensive play is all about reading your opponent's habits and working around them to get punishes. It's not just "spam projectiles and fish for grab." Each projectile should have a thought out purpose, even if that purpose isnt obvious. For example, when I'm shooting a bunch of pellets, I'm not just spamming pellets and hoping it works, I think about where I want to control space based on what my opponent has done in the past. Against players that stay grounded Ill fire two pellets low and one high to cover jump, against aerial opponents, I fire one very high, one high, and one grounded so they hit each one on the way down, or I try to read their movement patterns and block their intended path with pellets. Mindless spam is easy to beat, well thought out, defensive projectile play is not. Your over-simplification of defensive play leads me to believe that you get wrecked by defensive play styles, and that someone timed you out once and you're super salty about it.

A lot of players like to go "GUN-HO," into every fight and finish it as soon as possible. I'm guilty of this too, but I've developed my fighting style between being aggressive and being defensive when the situation calls for it. I often play defensively if I'm close to dying or if I'm up against a character than can kill me pretty early, hence why I space myself in order to get a hold of myself and breathe for a bit. Playing defensively can be difficult because you need to focus on your opponent just as much as you're focusing on yourself, and you have to catch them on their mistakes and capitalize on it as much as you can. I try my best to not be defensive for too long because I hate running down the clock, and I switch when I'm confident enough that I can go all out on them. Oh, and if they mess up and happen to be too close to me when I shield them, Mega Upper gets the job done. I love doing that so much.

 

[JesusMorpheus]

Usually for me, when i play defensive, i'm looking for habits or i'm trying my best to annoy people. Once they crack and can't handle the projectiles anymore, they'll start making a lot more mistakes by rushing in and then that's when i'll get a lot of damage. That usually doesn't work on PR members down here in SFL so i'll generally play more reactive while still spacing myself. I hardly ever go offensive unless i'm feeling very confident. Both have their uses in all matchups, i just tend to prefer defensive play more. Seeing if people can handle it is always fun to experience

 

[Mythzotick]

It also depends on what position you and your opponent are at, what stage you're playing on, and what you two can do to each other. For example...

Against a character who has great mobility, a great combo game, and/or a great punish game, you really need to be on point defensively. Otherwise, you'll be taking 40+ damage if your percentage is low or your stock will be gone at high percentages.

Against a character who has poor mobility, bad out of shield options/close quarters combat, and/or has a hard time killing, you can afford to be more aggresive because they don't have the stats or options to really threaten you as much.

As for stages, you'll generally want to be more aggresive on a stage like Battlefield than on a stage like Town & City because the 3 platforms will ALWAYS be there for you to shark uairs even against those that have reflectors (only against someone like Villager or Mr. Game & Watch it's not the best idea) and you'll be living a lot longer thanks to BF having the largest blast zones while T&C's platforms won't always be there and it has the smallest blast zones. Your offstage game also shines more on BF than it does on T&C because BF's onstage is smaller while its' offstage is bigger; leading to more possibitlies to edgeguard and more room to react and punish those who're recovering.

Waiting for ESAM to make a Stage Select: Mega Man video even though it'll probably never happen.

 

[Mega-Spider]

It also depends on what position you and your opponent are at, what stage you're playing on, and what you two can do to each other. For example...

Against a character who has great mobility, a great combo game, and/or a great punish game, you really need to be on point defensively. Otherwise, you'll be taking 40+ damage if your percentage is low or your stock will be gone at high percentages.

Against a character who has poor mobility, bad out of shield options/close quarters combat, and/or has a hard time killing, you can afford to be more aggresive because they don't have the stats or options to really threaten you as much.

As for stages, you'll generally want to be more aggresive on a stage like Battlefield than on a stage like Town & City because the 3 platforms will ALWAYS be there for you to shark uairs even against those that have reflectors (only against someone like Villager or Mr. Game & Watch it's not the best idea) and you'll be living a lot longer thanks to BF having the largest blast zones while T&C's platforms won't always be there and it has the smallest blast zones. Your offstage game also shines more on BF than it does on T&C because BF's onstage is smaller while its' offstage is bigger; leading to more possibitlies to edgeguard and more room to react and punish those who're recovering.

Waiting for ESAM to make a Stage Select: Mega Man video even though it'll probably never happen.

Against characters with really good stats, I try to go for a balance between offensive and defensive play. Being too defensive can slow the game down to a crawl and being too offensive can get you caught in some bad spots, so going for a balance between the two is what I'd personally go for.

Town and City isn't bad for us (It's no Lylat Cruise, thank god), but I do agree that it's a stage that we need to have a more mindful approach when it comes to fighting.

 

[JesusMorpheus]

Slowing down the pace isn't necessarily a bad thing. I personally favor it. Allows me to recognize things i wouldn't have noticed if i was playing aggressively. Unless i get a juggle situation on BF/DL64. Metal blade and up air frame traps are the best

 

[Wumpy007]

What u guys r describing as defensive play to me is just smash basics, reading habits,thats one of the main aspects of smash, projectiles, again main fundamental of smash. U guys call it " defensive play" like ur some sort of masters of it. Man gtfo here.and **** yea I get salty when I spend 5 minutes chasing a d roll spammer only to have it go to the clock, waste of my time. Theres a difference between playing defensive and just trolling/ being a *****. Just thought id add my 2 cents didn't realize id get the whole forum butt hurt, guess some thing just come naturally to some , and others have to categorize and study just to learn how to read a dodge roll, wow this has become a joke have fun practicing defensive play, "the best defense is a good offense" smh JesusMorpheus

 

[Rush 2112]

This topic is a mess xD it went from moves to combos to describing defensive play to trolling.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

What u guys r describing as defensive play to me is just smash basics, reading habits,thats one of the main aspects of smash, projectiles, again main fundamental of smash. U guys call it " defensive play" like ur some sort of masters of it. Man gtfo here.and **** yea I get salty when I spend 5 minutes chasing a d roll spammer only to have it go to the clock, waste of my time. Theres a difference between playing defensive and just trolling/ being a *****. Just thought id add my 2 cents didn't realize id get the whole forum butt hurt, guess some thing just come naturally to some , and others have to categorize and study just to learn how to read a dodge roll, wow this has become a joke have fun practicing defensive play, "the best defense is a good offense" smh JesusMorpheus

So you realize that defensive play is heavily fundamentally based, but you can't beat it so you get mad and oversimplify it. What did you expect as a response? It's not our fault that you can't adapt to people who spam rolls and play keep away.

 

[Megamang]

So how about everyone stops replying to that guy? Ok, thanks.


Some characters demand defensive play. Mega is the answer i found to the bull**** that is Diddy, specifically fair and banana + shield. Finally i can progress thru the diddytown that is my local bracket.


Anyways, ive been practicing the timing of leaf shield disappearing. I think we have great potential there. I like leaf shield and zdrop pressure. You can condition them to stay in shield by throwing the leaf shield occasionally. The disappearing allows aerials, which finishes the pressure nicely. Zdrop blade and bair and a few leaves almost breaks the shield alone.


Also, stick a crash bomber? Charge a fsmash, they suddenly have to get out of there. Mix in releasing it early to snag jumps, and charging it all the way to break shield with the bomber.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

So, not sure if its actually a thing, but I was able to land footstool > zdrop > fast fall > down smash around 70% on shiek in training mode and it registered as a combo on the counter (you have to space the landing to catch them out of the air before they can tech the ground). Thoughts?

 

[Megamang]

I think you might as well infinite them if you get the footstool

If you arent confident in your infinite, its probably a decent alternative. So keep learning, but if you hit a zdrop in a tournament set before youre confident or on the chars it doesnt work, then yea its probably optimal ish since dsmash hits the hardest of our moves.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

I can do the infinite, but this cuts out an aerial footstool, so it just feels more practical. Idk

 

[Mythzotick]

One move that I kind of want to talk about is how surprisingly tricky of a move leaf shield is. I remember back in the 3DS days when this move was generally considered to be Mega Man's worst move mainly due to its' horrible frame data. A few buffs later and more labbing, leaf shield is now one of Mega Man's more important moves and is right up there with lemons when it comes to how frustrating it is to deal with.

What's great about leaf shield is that it has a multitude of uses such as using it for getting grabs, preventing opponents from landing a hit or grab sometimes, used as a projectile, footstool gimps, and can even jab lock. Not to mention that this move gets even better whenever you have a metal blade in your hands as an item. I remember Dire who commentated the ScAtt vs DJ Jack match back at CEO 2016 with Logic called Mega Man the best character in the game for like 5 seconds when he has both a metal blade in his hands and leaf shield active. It's almost like your opponent can't even do anything during that time. Against some of the fast characters like Fox, Captain Falcon, and Sonic, leaf shield can be an absolute godsend to have for you to defend against their constant pressure and possibly even gimp them.

As beneficial as leaf shield is for us, that's not to say that it doesn't have its' flaws and can even cost you a stock if you use it at the wrong time. For starters, even with the speed buffs it has received, it still has s*** frame data; coming out at frame 50 and the first active frame is frame 54. The frame data for when it's used as a projectile is also nothing special since it comes out frame 22 and the first active frame is frame 56 although it's safer if you use it in the air onstage. So if you're going to put up leaf shield, it's best to do it when your opponent is from a far enough distance to where they can't punish you, like being offstage depending on the character. Next off is that it loses to counters. Against someone like Bayonetta, this moves almost becomes irrelevant because if you get near her with leaf shield active, she can just witch time you easily if the Bayonetta player knows that he/she can do that and we all know what that'll lead to right?

If there is one thing that you can not do in any match up is put up leaf shield offstage while trying to come back to the stage or near the ledge where your opponent is in range to punish you for it. If anyone remembers watching Kameme vs Ally back at EVO 2016, then you saw Kameme losing a stock TWICE after getting knocked offstage and using leaf shield while offstage. As Ally was able to recognize what Kameme was doing during those moments, he punished him with a bair both times since leaf shield takes a while to come out. You can also accidentally sd while offstage if you're not high enough to where you can avoid that happening. It doesn't matter if you wait for leaf shield to disappear or to immediately throw it to get rid of it, you're screwed either way if you're too close to the blast zone. Even if you're still alive, you're still in a very vulnerable state and can easily get set up for getting spiked or might not recover after using Rush because you were too low. It's definitely a situation to be cautious of before committing such an option.

Those are my current thoughts on leaf shield right now. Does anyone else want to continue the leaf shield discussion by adding something that I didn't cover, or give another move/tech the spotlight?