"Medical Tools of the Trade" - Dr. Mario Moveset Discussion and Analysis (Phase 5: Dash Attack)

[Kisatamura]

Dr. Mario Moveset Discussion and Analysis

This is totally not copied from the one in the Mario forums.

Similar to what is being done in the Mario forums, this thread is an in-depth discussion of Dr. Mario's moveset. In this thread, we can discuss Doc's moves, their best application, or what their intended use should be. While I kinda want to do something like the day session in the Mario boards, I want this to be more productive than the MU thread (Which is my fault ) Regardless, we can have discussion on Doc's attacks, and move onto another move in Doc's arsenal. Hopefully this will allow new and old Doc players to get more knowledge about Dr. Mario's moveset.

Doctor's Medical Citations

Macchiato's Doc Moveset techinical data
Liberation's Medical Files

 

[Kisatamura]

Phase 1: Jab String


Jab 1 Startup: 2 frames
Jab 1 Damage: 2.8%
Jab 1 Notes: Set knockback, consecutive jab

Jab 2 Startup: 11 frames from Jab 1 (2 frames)
Jab 2 Damage: 1.68%
Jab 2 Notes: Set knockback

Jab 3 Startup 25 frames from Jab 1 (2 frames)
Jab 3 Damage: 4.48%
Jab 3 Notes: Opponent launched at Sakurai angle

Note: All jabs in the attack string are active for 2 frames each

Total Damage: 8-9%

Discussion about Dr. Mario's jab string can start now.

As stated somewhere on the Social Thread, Doc's Jab string has set knockback, allowing for potential resets ranging from throws to UpB on either the first or second hit, but the second hit is preferred due to less endlag. Doc's jab is one of the fastest attacks in the game, serving as either a quick attack option or small damage racking. While the string is pretty quick itself, it's not incredibly fast like Sonic's or Mario's.

 

[SymPhoney]

First off, this is a Great Post, keep it up. I have a question about the Doc's Jab Combo. How does one reset to a Grab or Up b. I press A twice and then the grab button, but all that happens is he finishes the combo. Am I supposed to wait a second, or shield first, or something else. I just cant seem to figure it out.

 

[Kisatamura]

For grabbing, you'll need to wait a little bit, but not a full second or else you might let the opponent escape. Two jabs into a grab is a 50/50 mixup, but it leaves you with some small advantage so that the opponent usually cannot beat out your attacks. The timing is more like two jabs, wait about almost half a second, and then grab.

It's easier with UpB since you can mash UpB as Doc is finishing his jab.

 

[SymPhoney]

Oh so you just wait a half second, it's that simple. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it. Are there any other interesting things you can do from a jab?

 

[Kisatamura]

You can go into Doc's other ground attacks, but they run the risk of getting punished if blocked.

Actually, now that I think about it, you can use dtilt to setup either a grab followup or an aerial followup.

 

[Kisatamura]

Onto Doc's ftilt.

Phase 2: Ftilt

Ftilt Startup: 5 frames
Ftilt Damage: 7.84%
Ftilt Notes: Opponent launched at Sakurai angle. Can be angled, active from frame 5-8


Total Damage: 7-8%

Discussion about Dr. Mario's ftilt can start now.

 

[Dobbston]

Ftilt has the best range of any of Dr. Mario's moves on the ground but it doesn't seem like it's disjointed at all. Dtilt > Ftilt in almost every situation.

 

[meleebrawler]

Like many other ftilts, this serves as a move to create space in situations where a jab wouldn't quite reach.
You don't get as much out of spacing it like you do with dtilt, so don't think too hard about when to use it,
it's mostly an alternate panic button to jab.

 

[Kisatamura]

Ftilt is unsafe at early percents, but it's better at mid percents where it functions basically as a get off me move. That being said, overly aggressive players can run right into this.

 

[A2ZOMG]

As Doc given his air approach is on the slow side, I just think it's generally worth noting that it's really important to know the range of his ground moves because of this. Unlike Mario though because his damage per hit on most of his attacks is above average (and on top of that given he has a lot of very viable KO options), you don't have to worry as much about outmaneuvering your opponent to come out ahead in exchanges as long as you know situations where his spacing tools are applicable.

Doc F-tilt isn't outstanding but it does its job being a ground poke and helping you get people offstage where Doc is strong. Can combo after B-air at certain percents too.

 

[Kisatamura]

Topic revive. Let's go onto Dtilt

Phase 3: Dtilt

Dtilt Startup: 5 frames
Dtilt Damage: 5.6% (foot), 7.84% (body)
Dtilt Notes: Opponent launched at 80° angle, active from frame 5-8


Total Damage: 5 or 6% at foot range, 7 or 8% close up

Discussion about Dr. Mario's dtilt can start now.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I use D-tilt to stop people from dashgrabbing me, and if you space aerials and end up just slightly outside shieldgrab range, this is a pretty safe pressure tool. In Doc's case, he actually has to use D-tilt in some combos in some matchups (Sheik is the most obvious one) due to the way his U-air carries people horizontally.

 

[KenMeister]

Pretty much my go-to for poking shields or spacing should jab not suffice (dtilt is faster and safer than ftilt anyway). Leads into uair > dtilt strings but only works at low percents given it pops up opponents higher than Mario whereas Mario can do his more reliably, and also string dtilt alone.

 

[waldorf2007]

It's my goto in matchups where people get grab happy, and also underestimate its speed. Luigi is a good choice for this IMO. Luigis tend to run in and quickly dash grab, and if you dtilt at the right range they can whiff. Also, grabs don't beat attacks like they did in brawl, so you can immediately up B or pivot SH back air after doing it to scare away opponents.

It's also my goto for when I get a trump punish at lower percents, because on some characters it does hit their hands and I get a free up air or RAR back air afterwards.

I would love to have a list of who d tilt works on for trump situations though, if possible. I find it way too hard to land the up tilt on edge characters, and people like sheik don't get hit by down tilt anymore. Any suggestions? (or direct me to a thread where we talk about this)

 

[Dobbston]

Dtilt comes out fast and it seems like it's at least partially disjointed so it'll at least clash with many attacks.

 

[waldorf2007]

I know this is a pretty useless comment for a competitive tournament scene but it's THE godsend against for glory-esque falcons and sonics.

Time it right and completely throw off their rhythm or clash with dash attacks and stuff

 

[Dobbston]

Yeah, Dtilt is definitely a good move in this game; fast, safe, and a good starter.

 

[Denzill7]

On some characters, dtilt's a quick move to catch opponents dropping their shield. Like, if you space a nair on a shielded character outside their grab range, you can outspace them with dtilt.

 

[Kisatamura]

Another topic revive. Let's move onto Utilt!

Phase 4: Utilt

Utilt Startup: 5 frames
Utilt Damage: 7.056%
Utilt Notes: Opponent launched vertically, active from frame 5-8


Total Damage: 7%

Discussion about Utilt can begin.

 

[Dobbston]

Utilt is just a decent starter that can sometimes kill at high percents; Dr. Mario's Utilt is very similar to Mario's.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

This move is surprisingly powerful for a tilt. And it's fast. FOW does showcases of each character and he has mentioned (and demonstrated) that Doc's Up Tilt can kill pretty well. The hitbox is a bit goofy as well.

 

[ChaosDanny]

Dr. Mario's u tilt is surprisingly good. A big difference from Mario's u tilt is that it's more horizontal knock back. A good move for edgeguard, combo starter, and drags opponents down to the ground for a follow up on the ground. Smash attacks, tilts, up B, etc.

 

[Xinc]

Doc's up tilt is pretty good, especially if you have a fast faller/heavy and down throw at lower percents for a Mario-esque combo, that can lead to an up air, which could also lead to a Up-B.

 

[Kisatamura]

One thing about utilt is that due to it's horrid horizontal range you'll want to at least be in the right position before committing to this move. Strangely it's vertical range extends somewhat below Doc, making it useful against certain characters that are short like Kirby, or to hit characters on the ledge.

Either way, utilt is a good combo option for a punish, just be wary that certain characters can escape utilt juggles. At low percents, utilts can be followed by a jab combo, or UpB. It can also be used for anti air purposes but this is probably only useful if your opponent is directly above you.

If utilt hits from behind, near the end of it's hitbox it becomes easier to link hits afterwards.

 

[CasteHappy//]

Agains light / floaty characters, up tilt is really good to keep them in the air, since it's faster than upsmash and it sends you vertically, it can be used to read panic airdodges when you are comboing them and send them up and keep juggling. Against chars like Puff, it can also kill at relatively high percentages. Against fastfallers is just awesome, needless to say. I think it's an underused move because almost everybody use it just as a "Mario combo" starter and it's eclipsed by upsmash.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I typically land U-tilts either after low altitude U-airs or when reading rolls/dodges. Situational move but the low% combos are pretty good. Otherwise I'd rather turnaround U-smash.

 

[ChaosDanny]

......I just noticed it said u tilt rather than u air. Fml.

 

[Kisatamura]

I think we're done with Doc's up tilt.

Phase 5: Dash Attack

Dash Attack Startup: 6 frames
Dash Attack Damage: 8.96%, 6.66% when late
Dash Attack Notes: Opponent launched purely at a vertical range, hitbox active from frame 6-26


Total Damage: 8 or 9%, or 6 on late hit

Discussion about Doc's Dash Attack can begin.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Easy but sub optimal punishing tool. If you do not think you can grab someone or land an Up-B, use this move.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Easy but sub optimal punishing tool. If you do not think you can grab someone or land an Up-B, use this move.

Mostly this. DA however does catch spotdodges more easily and conservatively can be used as a crossover on shield.

 

[CasteHappy//]

The easiest way to punish due to Doc's low running speed, and nice way to catch landings, spot dodges and poke shields. It can be used to surprise the opponent by foxtroting and pressing A at the last frames of the dashing animation, the dash attack comes out later and it covers more ground than just doing a dash attack. I don't know if that has a name, but it's really useful for a DA like Doc's

 

[Kisatamura]

As was the case in Melee, hitting late with this move allows you to do an aerial afterwards, making it a good move for punishing spotdodges and the like. You only really want to use this for punishing since the move is easily punished, though it starts up rather quick if the opponent isn't paying attention. At high percents the move allows you to knock your opponent into the air if you want to pursue them.

Either way, it's a typical dash attack, other than that Doc does have some sort of a low hurtbox on this.

 

[Dobbston]

It's mediocre for a dash attack but at least you can sometimes combo into Uair and Up B from it.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Would like to continue this discussion. Might I suggest that we move on to his Smash Attacks, starting with Forward Smash?

Phase 6: Forward Smash
Startup: 15 frames
Notes: Sweetspot does 19%, sourspot does 15-16%. Unlike Mario's F smash, the sweetspot is located closer to Doc's hand. Launched at 361 degrees.

Doc's frame data for reference: http://www.kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Dr. Mario/

Thoughts?

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Powerful powerful powerful move, but is very short ranged. I use it when I feel like I got a really good read.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Powerful powerful powerful move, but is very short ranged. I use it when I feel like I got a really good read.

I guess we're done with this move. This move hits hard, sweetspot or not.

Next move, up smash.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Up smash is my absolute go to move for anti airs, quick follow ups, killing, edge guardin against certain recoveries (fox illusions), and shield poking with Reverse jump cancel versions. This move is extremely malleable and versatile.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Up smash is my absolute go to move for anti airs, quick follow ups, killing, edge guardin against certain recoveries (fox illusions), and shield poking with Reverse jump cancel versions. This move is extremely malleable and versatile.

Pretty much. It's a damaging combo ender at low percents, esp. on fastfallers. If you can get a read of any kind, be it an air dodge, an illusion/phantasm, etc. you should be good to go. The recent buff seems to have made the move as strong as Mario's (or even stronger).

 

[MistressRemilia]

Ez, imma give my opinion about every covered move so far:
Phase 1, Jab: Our Jab is pretty good, the damage is solid for this kind of move, it's a very fast move & there's many kind of shenanigans you can do with it, it's also an okay combo extender when you reach the ground at the end of combos ( Jab 2 then regrab ofc )
Phase 2, Ftilt: Meh, as a rather aggro Doc, i hardly ever find use for that move, Dtilt is just better. Maybe we can find some use for jab locking, but that's probably it.
Phase 3, Dtilt: Pretty great move, can be a combo starter at any kind of %, catches airdodges with DTilt -> Strong Move like it's nobody's business at High%, and has really decent range.
Phase 4, Utilt: It's a pretty decent move, vs some characters you can crouch under some of them poorly spaced moves and punish with a UTilt. At low% too, you can do like, Dthrow -> Utilt vs some characters if you know they are going to break your combo with a fast move, then shieldgrab them for more dmg
Phase 5, Dash Attack: Late DA can lead into aerials and deals a decent amount of damage, it can be used in some situations to punish some moves, but it's still an average move.
Phase 6, FSmash: Kind of an hard read move but the sweetspot is godly, can kill very early.
Phase 7, USmash: One of its best moves if you ask me, it can be sort of a combo extendr vs fastfaller, especially if they don't know matchup. You can just Dthrow USmash them, if they don't jump away, that's a free regrab. Under the right conditions, it can kill at decently early %, it has almost no cooldown too, Good move.