Matchup Discussion, Week 1: Wario

[The Baron]

Hello denizens of the wolf forums. Starting now we will try to have more regular matchup discussions on a week by week basis. The character that we discuss next week will be decided by community vote as soon as I get the straw poll up. Without further ado, wario. (P.S. if we can get someone to be in charge of posting these that'd be great. I'm pretty sure TimeMuffinPHD wants to do these but I'm filling in for him because his computer has borked)(P.P.S sorry for getting this out late. College is a time sink)

Straw Poll is up:
Part 1 - http://strawpoll.me/4232239
Part 2 - http://strawpoll.me/4232390
I. Videos

II. Overiew
Wario is a heavy floaty who excels in his great aerial game, having one of the best air speeds in the game in addition to possesing some very good tools in the air such as his Uair and Nair.

Wario Strengths:

• Good aerial drift
• Fantastic Nair
• good juggle tool (Uair)
• Fairly decent tech chases
• Potential OHKO's using waft (above 40-ish percent)
• Good command grab in Chomp

Wario Weaknesses

• Short stubby arms mean that he can really lose out to disjoints and decent projectiles
• Great combo food, especially for our hero, Wolf
• predictable and short range recovery makes it easy to guard
• Side smash and Side B, while lethal, are very punishable on wiff

Key Points:

• Laser to force his approach or to cover yours as there isn't much he can do about it
• Respect the bite. It's got a large hit box and can lead to really good conversions and tech chases on wolf
• Angle your shield downward slightly if being shield pressured on the ground as D-smash will shield stab
• Wolf's D-smash is very good kill option against Wario
• While not the best edgeguarder, you don't particularly have to be to edge guard wolf, so make sure you don't get knocked off stage, else you will have a hell of a time getting back

III. Matchup Analysis
Neutral

• Lasers are part of your BnB here. Use them to cover your approaches but don't get laser happy as the startup can be punished by warios shoulder tackle
• gatting the first hit is key as Wario is a great combo weight for you
• Watch out for shoulder tackles. While not entirely safe, they're pretty quick to come out and can catch you off guard if you don't respect them
• Dash attack is hilariously unsafe, and shouldn't be used for approaches unless you know there is not anything Wario can do about it
• Respect the waft. If you see he has one charged, don't change your play completely, but be a little more safe as that can really turn a game around if it connects
• DON'T GET GRABBED

Punish

• Standard shine -> Nair pillars and shine -> Dair pillars work wonders against wario
• Energems (shine into side b) is doable starting around 70 - 80 %
• Dair shine is also pretty much guaranteed for the most part at those percents
• Back throw starts jsut about all your combos and can also lead into side b at higher percents provided they don't DI right
• Same with foward throw though at lower percents tech chasing may be more optimal

Escaping Pressure

• Shine OOS is your bestest friend. Not only gets Wario off of you but can also lead into combos due to Wario's floaty nature
• Always angle shield downward. D-smash shield stabs and can lead into a tech chase opportunity for wario
• Mix up your techs as Wario can tech chase fairly well with side b

Edge Guarding

• play it safe and simple and just grab ledge. No need to chillin this guy. His recovery is fairly linear and slow, so an edgehog should be fairly easy to do
• Bair beats shoulder tackle if spaced correctly, so if you see Wario trying to recover with it, a nice foot to the face should make him reconsider

Recovering

• Unless you can land on a platform, recovering high is a bad idea. With how mauch landing lag there is on fire wolf and wolf flash, wario can easily just shoulder tackle you back off, putting you in the same position again
• Go for ledge as often as possible. While still rough, recovery isn't impossible from that angle
• If you don't see any safe avenues, just try and hit him. Many won't see it coming, and unless it's cc'd, it's relatively safe unless it's with wolf flash in which case he might actually die from it

IV. Stages

V. Outside Opinions
(Want to actually try this because what time muffin did was pretty cool. Having outside opinions in my opnion are really great to have, and provide insight from the other side of the coin)
Supascoot:

• So this MU is around 55:45 in wolf's favor. I've played it quite a bit, however not as much as i would have liked. There are a few things that you guys might not know too much about when it comes to wario:wolf, so I'll explain them here
  
  First thing is probably the biggest factor of the MU, that is Wario's 0-70% CG. Much like pikachu, wario can effectively 0-death wolf off of a grab (also if you get grabbed at high% then you pretty much die to waft), and even assuming worst case scenario off of the after CG punish is a free edgeguard. Even in the absence of this CG, such as on stages like BF, wario still has an easy time tech chasing on platforms due to his unique ability to no impact land onto the majority of platforms on neutral stages, making it cakewalk for him to jump up and carry on the punish. Wario's signature air mobility can make it tough for wolf to use strings on wario.
  
  This doesn't mean Wario has it all good. Bites usefulness is diminished due to wolf's fallspeed, making it only good for starting tech chases. Wario I feel has a worse time punishing wolf than most in absence of the CG. What really pushes the MU in wolfs favour is probably obvious to you guys, but wolf's neutral game with lasers and his presure game with shine and aerials counter wario hard. For those that don't know, wario has some of the worst front and back rolls in the game, making it hard for him to escape shine pressure. Wario is combo food for wolf, and his recovery is down air bait for wolf.
  
  That's pretty much it in terms of Wario. I pretty much just tried to run through all the different key points of the MU, which is probably why it seems a little incoherent.

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

My computer is fixed! I'll get to adding some stuff to this soon enough.

 

[XF_Awkward]

What do Wario's OOS options look like? I'd imagine waft should be respected?

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

What do Wario's OOS options look like? I'd imagine waft should be respected?

If you're at high percent I'd imagine respecting waft a lot yeah. Dunno how it is OOS, will have to look into that one. His N-air is possibly his best OOS option from what I understand - it covers the best space, but I don't think it's incredibly fast.

 

[XF_Awkward]

I'd imagine that we're going to throw videos up of Wolf's playing well against Wario, but what are the thoughts on videos of Wolf's playing the MU incorrectly to have an easier visualization of what we should look out for and avoid?

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

I'd imagine that we're going to throw videos up of Wolf's playing well against Wario, but what are the thoughts on videos of Wolf's playing the MU incorrectly to have an easier visualization of what we should look out for and avoid?

I think it we wanted a fully complete guide, we would have several videos which show key points of pros and cons in the match-up. But for many of the match-ups we just don't have the resources, there's just a lack of Wolf footage unfortunately. It's hard to find just one good video for a match-up. I may consider doing like a match analysis thing, who knows.

 

[The Baron]

I think it we wanted a fully complete guide, we would have several videos which show key points of pros and cons in the match-up. But for many of the match-ups we just don't have the resources, there's just a lack of Wolf footage unfortunately. It's hard to find just one good video for a match-up. I may consider doing like a match analysis thing, who knows.

Literally this. Wolf players aren't as common as we'd like to believe if only for the reason that fax and falco exist and they are both arguably much easier to use. I'm updating both threads today and if I can find videos of a wolf not playing the match up correctly, I'll post it

 

[redcometchar]

I reached out to the Wario Board just now for aid.
Also @ TimeMuffinPhD seems to play the matchup just fine, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc-LuMUhMO4

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

I reached out to the Wario Board just now for aid.
Also @ TimeMuffinPhD seems to play the matchup just fine, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc-LuMUhMO4

Still a lot of room for improvement. Not enough Wario's to play against

 

[supascoot]

@ TimeMuffinPhD ayyyy

So this MU is around 55:45 in wolf's favor. I've played it quite a bit, however not as much as i would have liked. There are a few things that you guys might not know too much about when it comes to wario:wolf, so I'll explain them here

First thing is probably the biggest factor of the MU, that is Wario's 0-70% CG. Much like pikachu, wario can effectively 0-death wolf off of a grab (also if you get grabbed at high% then you pretty much die to waft), and even assuming worst case scenario off of the after CG punish is a free edgeguard. Even in the absence of this CG, such as on stages like BF, wario still has an easy time tech chasing on platforms due to his unique ability to no impact land onto the majority of platforms on neutral stages, making it cakewalk for him to jump up and carry on the punish. Wario's signature air mobility can make it tough for wolf to use strings on wario.

This doesn't mean Wario has it all good. Bites usefulness is diminished due to wolf's fallspeed, making it only good for starting tech chases. Wario I feel has a worse time punishing wolf than most in absence of the CG. What really pushes the MU in wolfs favour is probably obvious to you guys, but wolf's neutral game with lasers and his presure game with shine and aerials counter wario hard. For those that don't know, wario has some of the worst front and back rolls in the game, making it hard for him to escape shine pressure. Wario is combo food for wolf, and his recovery is down air bait for wolf.

That's pretty much it in terms of Wario. I pretty much just tried to run through all the different key points of the MU, which is probably why it seems a little incoherent.

TLDR: don't get grabbed, abuse wolf's good aspects of being op

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

@ TimeMuffinPhD ayyyy

So this MU is around 55:45 in wolf's favor. I've played it quite a bit, however not as much as i would have liked. There are a few things that you guys might not know too much about when it comes to wario:wolf, so I'll explain them here

First thing is probably the biggest factor of the MU, that is Wario's 0-70% CG. Much like pikachu, wario can effectively 0-death wolf off of a grab (also if you get grabbed at high% then you pretty much die to waft), and even assuming worst case scenario off of the after CG punish is a free edgeguard. Even in the absence of this CG, such as on stages like BF, wario still has an easy time tech chasing on platforms due to his unique ability to no impact land onto the majority of platforms on neutral stages, making it cakewalk for him to jump up and carry on the punish. Wario's signature air mobility can make it tough for wolf to use strings on wario.

This doesn't mean Wario has it all good. Bites usefulness is diminished due to wolf's fallspeed, making it only good for starting tech chases. Wario I feel has a worse time punishing wolf than most in absence of the CG. What really pushes the MU in wolfs favour is probably obvious to you guys, but wolf's neutral game with lasers and his presure game with shine and aerials counter wario hard. For those that don't know, wario has some of the worst front and back rolls in the game, making it hard for him to escape shine pressure. Wario is combo food for wolf, and his recovery is down air bait for wolf.

That's pretty much it in terms of Wario. I pretty much just tried to run through all the different key points of the MU, which is probably why it seems a little incoherent.

TLDR: don't get grabbed, abuse wolf's good aspects of being op

Eyyyyyyyyy. Thanks for coming by and dropping that knowledge.

 

[The Baron]

@ TimeMuffinPhD ayyyy

So this MU is around 55:45 in wolf's favor. I've played it quite a bit, however not as much as i would have liked. There are a few things that you guys might not know too much about when it comes to wario:wolf, so I'll explain them here

First thing is probably the biggest factor of the MU, that is Wario's 0-70% CG. Much like pikachu, wario can effectively 0-death wolf off of a grab (also if you get grabbed at high% then you pretty much die to waft), and even assuming worst case scenario off of the after CG punish is a free edgeguard. Even in the absence of this CG, such as on stages like BF, wario still has an easy time tech chasing on platforms due to his unique ability to no impact land onto the majority of platforms on neutral stages, making it cakewalk for him to jump up and carry on the punish. Wario's signature air mobility can make it tough for wolf to use strings on wario.

This doesn't mean Wario has it all good. Bites usefulness is diminished due to wolf's fallspeed, making it only good for starting tech chases. Wario I feel has a worse time punishing wolf than most in absence of the CG. What really pushes the MU in wolfs favour is probably obvious to you guys, but wolf's neutral game with lasers and his presure game with shine and aerials counter wario hard. For those that don't know, wario has some of the worst front and back rolls in the game, making it hard for him to escape shine pressure. Wario is combo food for wolf, and his recovery is down air bait for wolf.

That's pretty much it in terms of Wario. I pretty much just tried to run through all the different key points of the MU, which is probably why it seems a little incoherent.

TLDR: don't get grabbed, abuse wolf's good aspects of being op

What time muffin said

 

[Jake The Preacher]

If you wanna make this MU easy just play Ike. I play my friend Wolf/Wario and sometimes lose or have close calls. I play Ike/Wario and do work. Also played a Wario that I had trouble with as Wolf, played him as Ike and cleaned him up real good. Definitely the wrong place to add that comment but it's just a situation. Although I agree with supascoot on the 55:45. It's new puff vs new spacy