Matchup Chart (work in progress) Thread

[Winston]

The other thread kind of died, which seems to show that nobody cares, but I think it'd be really nice to actually get an official matchup chart up.

So, I'll give it another try.

Here's the chart as I have it now:

current problems:

-I know almost nothing about DK and Luigi's Matchups, and only slightly more about Link's. The evaluations currently on the chart for those characters is mostly theorycraft. This is probably where I want the most feedback/help.

-Nobody plays Kirby at a high level so it's hard to gauge exactly where his matchups should be.
-Yoshi may or may not be overvalued as I may or may not be biased by the fact that I played vs SheerMadness recently and that most of those matchups were made completely based on his opinion.

I'd really like some input on a lot of this, along with well thought-out reasons. "X character has good combos on Y character" isn't very helpful or convincing.

 

[MattNF]

The other thread didn't die, it's at the very top of the page. >_>

 

[Winston]

The other thread didn't die, it's at the very top of the page. >_>

The other thread meaning the one I posted this in initially.

That thread was called "Counter List."

The "Matchup Chart..." thread by Wind Owl has long since ceased to be about a matchup chart.

Incidentally, I do hope that Wind Owl sees this. ^__^

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Edit: never mind what I posted. I was being a noob. Lol I said ness was good? Wow 5 months ago I really was a noob hopefully I changed...

 

[TehBo49]

The Pikachu matchups are okay except Jigglypuff vs Pikachu. It's just slightly in Pikachu's favor. Jigglypuff can 0-death Pikachu pretty easily, but has a hard time landing a hit on him.

For the Fox matchups, Captain Falcon has an advantage. Fox dies very early vs Captain Falcon (f-throw, f-air, f-throw, u-air, u-air, d-air). The same can be said of Pikachu & Kirby to a lesser degree. Captain Falcon vs Fox should be a 6-4 in the Captain's favor. Pikachu & Kirby vs Fox are close to even (something like 5.5/4.5 in their favor).

 

[Wenbobular]

Blue Yoshi, the tier list in my sticky is outdated and was made by people with hard-ons for DJC technology. I don't think Ness should be as high, though Winston thinks DJC is more overrated than I do.

Fox vs. Falcon is even. Fox has as much broken in him as Falcon does (Utilt chains, Uair chains, Blaster, easy gimps, Bair chain edgeguards...). Probably the most dominating factor of this matchup is the blaster, because it neutralizes to some extent Falcon's speed. However, Falcon of course has the amazingly easy Uair chains which make him easy to pick up, but Fox's combos are just as good.

Fox has so much broken stuff on Pika and Kirby that it's mostly even (as in Fox's jab is utterly broken and floaty combos make Fair and Bair chains easier).

 

[†¹Ãgøn¥¹†]

I'd go as far as to say that pikachu as an even chances with mario & Fox in matchup.

 

[Wenbobular]

What's so radical about Fox, he's so broken (cept for Firefail).
Mario on the other hand...no. He gets Uair chained across the map...it's so easy that even I can do it (and I suck with Pika).

 

[Winston]

There are some flaws in your table. First, Ness is a very good character (Top tier). Yet, in the table, the only characters he counters is Link (bottom tier) and Luigi (low tier). If this was the case, Ness should be around Low tier. He should counter (or at least destroy) more than that.

I do believe that Ness should be Low Tier.

Being a good (not pro) Kirby player, and playing against many Nesses on Killera, I would argue that Ness should counter Kirby. As for DK, I don’t know enough about this matchup to give a great answer, but from what I know about the two characters, I would say that ness should destroy DK (or at least counter). I agree with Jigglypuff countering Ness. Other than that, I can’t give a respectable opinion about Ness, as I don’t know enough about his matchups.

My first instinct was to put Ness at an advantage to DK, but Ness has pretty terrible range. And DK has pretty whorish grab range. Being off the edge is bad times for Ness, and it's something DK does pretty well. I'd say even on dreamland (and other "open", smaller stages), Ness at an advantage on Hyrule. I suppose that means Ness has an advantage overall.

I think some of the Jigglypuff matchups may need debate. Jigglypuff can 0-to-death many characters in many different ways, but Jigglypuff’s range is very restricted, which causes major attack priority issues.

Being able to 0-death people doesn't make up for restricted range. That's my beef with Jiggs.

One change I would suggest (again, I do not play Jigglypuff enough or play against Jigglypuff enough to give a perfectly good opinion), would be that Jigglypuff counters Kirby. If Jigglypuff is above Kirby in the air, Jigglypuff can do damaging combos on Kirby (as Kirby doesn’t have any upwards attacks other than the spinning one that doesn’t do much).

Have you tried uptilting with kirby recently? >.>

I don’t know much about the Link-Mario matchup, but I would think from what I know that Link would counter Mario.

it's hard for Link to counter anyone because of how slow his attacks are, coupled with his bad recovery. I'm not sold on this one.

Lastly (for now), I think you put too many =’s for Yoshi. I can’t do any suggestions to what should be what, but I do think that some of those should be counters or countered instead. I do play Yoshi well, but not well enough. And in order to make an accurate final decision, some people who play Yoshi very well should comment their opinions.

The thing is, SheerMadness (someone who plays Yoshi quite well) told me that Yoshi's matchups were all even besides vs Pikachu.

 

[Superstar]

Mario is incorrect. It's really +'s across the board except for Samus/Jiggs. Mario's girth makes people laugh and get belly slammed, except for Samus, who thinks he's disgusting. Jiggs is Male but he is a a homosexual.

I know nothing of this, I'm still where every matchup sort of looks even, so I wish you good luck.

 

[Deleted member]

Nobody here knows what they are talking about

pikachu equals fox? LMAO

 

[Zen Yore]

BJ we haven't gotten to p2p yet xO zzz )x

 

[Winston]

Nobody here knows what they are talking about

Hey, ur name isnt isai....

 

[†¹Ãgøn¥¹†]

Nobody here knows what they are talking about

pikachu equals fox? LMAO

Show us your great knowledge about the match-ups then, mr. I know everything.

 

[TehBo49]

@ Wenbobular: I would say Falcon has a slight advantage on Fox because Fox will die faster than Falcon.

 

[WolfzGunz]

Fox = Falcon imo

They both do well on each other
(in a sexual way)

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

pika oooowns fox, pika has every sort of advantage for approaching(uairlol) and insta gimps

 

[Winston]

pika oooowns fox, pika has every sort of advantage for approaching(uairlol) and insta gimps

Updated the chart for Pika vs Fox >.>

I would have thought lasers and fox's speed would even it up, but apparently not...