A good Jiggly puff will space n-air / fair / b-air and aim at ur head so you cannot ever punish even on power shield. Her moves unfortunately are not that low to the ground either so Jiggly can crouch. (same issue with fighting kirby) The biggest reason i say its 70-30 is the fact that Zelda isn't exactly lagless which makes landing rest super easy. Plus light weight is an early death. However Zelda can blow up jiggly puff with up-b elevator combo early too. It's kind of a jank match in my eyes but Jiggly can play a whole lot safer.
Dedede is hard if we get thrown off stage because if he sets up a Gordo trap you're going to have a bad time. Yes hes combo food but we have to put in way more work to get him to kill % vs the amount of work he has to put in to kill us. I believe his d-smash kills us @ 100 from the middle of most stages without rage. Since we usually combo him hard he's going to at least have about 70%-110% dmg which will help him kill us off a good read.
I do agree though that Dedede might be a 55-45 in his favor.
Any other opinions I can try and explain for myself? I'm surprised no one is asking about C.falcon yet XD or Wii fit
I actually saw this last night and decided not to ask any questions because I was so confused about this MU chart that I decided it wouldn't be very practical to ask all the questions I have but, if you insist on explaining it to others, I'll ask some that I have
1. Sonic isn't our worst matchup. Yeah, he's ridiculously safe but we have some tools to challenge him. Since he lacks disjoints for the most part, we can outrange him, even in the air with our nair and Nayru's Love, when he approaches us (Because he will approach us I assure you). He's not a good matchup but not our worst. I'm still convinced that Sheik is our worst because Sheik legitimately shuts us down. Sonic doesn't do that. He plays hit and run all day until he can land a yolo fsmash/usmash/bair or get us up high enough for one of his aerials to kill out of spindash. Sheik will combo us all the way off stage and potentially end our stock with a bouncing fish right at the end of her fairpocalypse. Sheik doesn't have to approach. She can needle camp us to death and can stay out of our range with her fair (why is it so stupidly disjointed?). Jigglypuff is also not even close to where she belongs imo. Jiggles is in our favor 60-40 I feel. She doesn't actually pressure our shield. She can take chip shots at it with her fair or bair but can't actually force us out and Zelda can challenge all of Jiggles' aerials with utilt because of the disjoint. Since Jiggles has no disjoints, Zelda can outrange Jiggles at all times. Plus, Jiggles dies hilariously early where Jiggles has to rely on rests to claim the same which is horribly risky because rests come from big reads or as a punish for us doing something horrifically unsafe. No way this MU is in her favor.
2. Marth is not a bad matchup. Marth is probably 55-45 at worst. Yeah, he outranges us but he's laggy. His best spacing tools are laggy ones: fair, bair, ftilt, dtilt, jab. Shielding against Marth is Zelda's best weapon since his grab doesn't reward him too much and his uthrow kills really late. Plus, we can harass him with phantom which outranges everything he has. He doesn't even juggle us very well. I don't understand why you have him ranked so poorly for us. Same goes for Lucina. I'll comment on D3 here as well because he doesn't belong here. I agree that it's more like a 55-45 in his favor. The only time I feel like I'm at a huge disadvantage against D3 is when I'm being edgeguarded. I think a lot of people that complain about D3 being difficult don't actually feel comfortable playing the matchup ideally (which is to camp him out, send his gordos back at him, run away, throw phantoms and din's at him until he dies). Zelda has to play so lame against D3 but that's how she wins matches against him and how she makes the MU even imo, not 65-35 in his favor. Donkey Kong is probably more of a 55-45 in his favor for the same reasons (except edgeguarding lol).
3. I'll also comment on the placement of some characters in the 55-45 section: Lucario, Ganon, and Samus. Lucario is an even matchup. I face a Lucario player on a regular basis. He's PR'ed number 3 in Wisconsin and we're even in H2H's. He agrees with me that the MU is an even 50-50. As for Ganon and Samus, I actually believe that these two MU's are in Zelda's favor (55-45 for Zelda). Ganon might actually be worse for him. For Samus, she struggles pretty hard for kills but combos really effectively out of grabs and dash attacks (Almost exactly like MK but a hell of a lot worse). She's got some guaranteed kill combos around 80-ish percent but that's not on lightweights like Zelda and proper DI by Zelda can often mean she survives Samus' combos when they eventually stop working around 75-ish percent on her. I'll admit that the MU is kinda tricky because Samus has zair and CS plus a dangerous bair but doesn't have setups into it when it'll kill. This is a MU where Zelda has to properly balance playing lame vs. playing aggressively. Stay just out of Samus' zair range toss out phantom for a little bit of pressure. See if phantom's walling properties lead Samus to make a mistake. If she barely misspaces a zair, go in and get a grab. Zelda can utilize rage very effectively against Samus since she ought to be living to higher percents against her.
Ganon, on the other hand has no answer to Zelda playing lame. He has no answer to properly spaced phantom 2's. His recovery is garbage and Zelda's offstage game wrecks him. He has no kill setups outside of tech chases on side-B. His grabs do nothing for him until about 120% when f-throw or b-throw kill close to the edge. If we zone him out, he can't do a whole lot other than sit in neutral and wait for us to do something stupid. It's really easy to land Lkicks against him because of his frame and he's remarkably punishable. Just don't try to punish usmash. There is no reason this MU should be out of our favor. I regularly play a Ganon main that was on our Summer PR at #10 in Wisconsin and he claims that the matchup is, and I quote, "butt," for Ganon.
4. This response is getting lengthy so I won't explain my thoughts on the others, I'll just explain what I think about characters' placements.
Ike is 55-45 in Ike's favor. Greninja is 55-45 in Greninja's favor. ROB is horrible. Probably something like 60-40 in his favor. Horrible MU. I never want to see a ROB for the rest of my life. Ness is 55-45 in his favor. Bowser might be 60-40 in Zelda's favor. 55-45 at best. Bowser suffers from the same problem as Ganon. Zelda gets so many free combos on Bowser (I've gotten upwards of 50% on a Bowser from one combo). Toon Link is far from 50-50. It might be 60-40 in his favor. He's like ROB. I never want to meet one in bracket. Mii Brawler might be 50-50. Cfal is absolutely not in our favor but it is winnable. 55-45 in his favor at best. Rosalina is absolutely, in no way, shape, or form in our favor. She's so out of our favor that it's hilarious. 60-40 in her favor at best. I've faced Chicago's GGA Nite. It's not a pretty MU. I think Pit and Pittoo are 50-50. I'm not so sure that the 40-60's you have listed are actually THAT good for her. Duck Hunt is difficult. Maybe a 50-50. Link is more like a 55-45 for Zelda. Recent buffs to Link really helped him. It might honestly be more like 50-50. Robin might be more of a 55-45 for Zelda. His grab buff made him a hell of a lot better. He's got a guaranteed kill setup from dthrow now. Wario I'm not too familiar with but I'm willing to bet it's not that good for Zelda. She outranges him but he's tough to punish and has fart setups. WFT is probably more like a 50-50. Mewtwo is more like 55-45 in Zelda's favor. Villager is nowhere near in our favor. 55-45 for Villager at best. I've actually faced MJG and Villager shuts us down so hard.
Like I said, I was really confused about this MU chart so I apologize for the length of this reply. Based on how we both rank MU's I feel like we probably play Zelda completely differently. I know a lot of Zelda mains play differently which is why we often have trouble making MU charts for her. Plus, there are so few of us that play her and even less of us that play her and only her in every MU at a tournament level that we just can't get enough opinions on top level play of all characters. Also, I apologize if I come off as combative too. I don't mean to. Again, it's mostly confusion on my part.
