Match up Week 3: Diddy Kong - King of Bananas

[FalKoopa]

Discuss vs

But I think we should grab bananas as much as possible. When we see the chance to pick up a banana on the ground, or using our skills to grab bananas he throws (Just like J. Miller did), because with bananas in our hands, BOOM! He has no more campy game (Unless I'm missing something here), no guaranteed grabs, no trips, and most importantly, he pretty much has to get out of the banana's way, possibly messing him up while doing so.

In short, we STILL has to focus on Diddy the most. But when you see the chance, grab that blasted banana up. Diddy is less threathening without it. Then throw it at him, get a successful direct hit on the ground, and..... FREE GRAB!

I need to correct something, anyone can DI our d-throw, it is actually dependent on DI just how much damage we can optimally get. Predictable DI is gonna get us at max either two aerials of own choice dependent on the situation or just one aerial almost guaranteed more often than not. Dependent on what aerials we hit with, we can then get even more damage but at this point I feel we are just punishing ignorance more than anything.

I refer to a game I had with Cyve, he had peculiar DI in which I didn't read correct and got nothing off of it, against Leffen you will notice that I eventually had to opt for one aerial and a retreating fireball to adjust to the fact he had realised he needed to stop taking as much damage as he was at one time.

MK can be a tool that can shut us down if we let it , the thing is we have to let Diddy's know we have valid answers to it at all times because we do. Fair, N-air, UP-B,OoS U-smash, Jab, and evasive maneuvers are usually are best bet but it depends on the situation and whether you have the composure to optimally punish these things. There were several times in which I wanted to UP-B but if it whiffs then I am basically handing a game/set to my opponent. Last thing anyone can afford to do against an opponent who is becoming aware.

Perfect shielding and being aware of how Diddy plays with Bananas is vital.
Luigi cannot afford to be impatient vs Diddy when the player is aware just powerful a banana on the ground actually is.

In this situation we either have to retreat, jab the banana to make it disappear or just wait exactly out of a range where we can deal with pressure from Diddy which will probably the following:

FF SH F-air
Dash Grab
Monkey Flip *Up to them what variant they use and will go for the one they feel is best*
Crouch walk forward D-tilt
Walk forward to push the Banana forward F-smash

This is a situation that in time we will face I am certain of it, we will need to stay patient and not crack under the pressure.

Luigi vs Diddy is a mu that is very momentum based and although we damage accumulate very well, unless there is a vital slip when it comes to Diddy it can be a task to kill a patient one.
Diddy's mobilty and airspeed will also make things difficult but not impossible, we also have jab to prevent bad grab attempts it is just important to not have tunnel vision or rush the kill... the moment we start doing this, the harder the harder the match will be for us.

There are other things I have not addressed or spoken about yet, but I felt mentioning just how powerful bananas can be for Diddy as well as us was very important.

Banana is our possession is important because we know have a very strong option Oos, a strong projectile that can guarantee a grab or a smash attack. It is a game/stock changing thing to correctly use a banana in anyone's hands, it is down to the situation how it is used.

Bananas cannot always simply just thrown back at the Diddy, thinking outside of the box is required to truly utilse just how dangerous a banana can be. JC throwing it down can be something people are not ready for in general we have to be aware of whatever situation we may face and if we do get a banana attempt to use it as best as you can manage. There were several times in my sets I failed or got the wrong input and just do what I had planned with spacing or just making the most of the banana in my hand.

To be able to shield pressure with fireballs, or at least make the Diddy approach is huge. As long as we are not pressing buttons or overextending then it is a promising situation for us to be in.

When a diddy has a banana in hand or on stage in front of him, I just start throwing out fireball and force him to do something. Fireball kills thrown banana and when throwing fireballs out over a banana on stage it makes it difficult for him to retrieve the banana. During fireball spam, his best options with banana in hand is probably jump up throw banana from my experience (which is somewhat slow and reactable). With banana on stage, probably sideb but that's totally fine by me because we're at least forcing him to get close and you shouldn't be mindlessly pressing b as well. Give yourself some time to react to options like sideb when you're forcing an approach with fireball.

 

[SirJuicius]

Just like any character against Diddy, it's an uphill battle. Mainly because of the bananas. As others have suggested, getting the banana is a good idea. But we can go on and on about bananas. Personally, I think they're delicious, especially when they're green ones. They're so fresh and tasty and... sorry, got sidetracked.

But there's more to Diddy than the bananas. Obviously the HOO-HA needs no introduction. It's Diddy's bread and butter, just like how d-throw combos are bread and butter for us. The best way to stop HOO-HA from happening is to space yourself against Diddy. It gets tricky though, since he has those blasted bananas and can just throw it your way to make the fireballs a non-threat. So just keep moving around. Make Diddy chase you from the ground and be prepared for the Monkey Flip. He can be attacked during the approach, post flip. I like using nair because it has good priority and provides some knockback to where you can follow up with another, quick air attack or try to grab Diddy.

When chasing Diddy, try and bait him to come closer and then when you can read that Diddy's committed to the attack and you have some distance, use Luigi's dash attack. The key in my opinion to beating Diddy is to not let yourself get too close to Diddy for his liking. Keep him at bay and let him in only when you have proper spacing to stop him.

 

[sims796]

So from what I've gathered, it's an uphill battle, but not as much as it would be for other characters facing Diddy, right?

 

[Wa_Black]

But can't we create upb set ups from using his bananas against him? How vital is that in this match up?
I know that Luigi can get kills on diddy early, but how hard is it to grab him?
Are there any moves from diddy that we should avoid shielding because we won't be able to punish, like can we perfect shield/spot dodge/perfect pivot upb or fsmash anything?
Do we win the spacing game (our tilts + smashes vs his range-wise)?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but the only thing I know about that match-up is that diddy wants to grab and up air.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

But can't we create upb set ups from using his bananas against him? How vital is that in this match up?
I know that Luigi can get kills on diddy early, but how hard is it to grab him?
Are there any moves from diddy that we should avoid shielding because we won't be able to punish, like can we perfect shield/spot dodge/perfect pivot upb or fsmash anything?
Do we win the spacing game (our tilts + smashes vs his range-wise)?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but the only thing I know about that match-up is that diddy wants to grab and up air.

Diddy should be pretty afraid if we get a banana in our hand because we become just as dangerous to him as he is with us. We can also keep throwing Fireballs and Nado while holding a banana so we have a pretty good advantage.

From my experience vs Diddy, it's pretty hard to grab him. He's usually dancing around Fireballs looking for an opening to hit us with a banana, grab, or Side B kick. We're doing the same thing trying to avoid bananas. I think we have a tough time grabbing each other.

We should avoid shielding Fair, Fsmash, and Dsmash if you really want those punishes. I shield just about everything because I don't want to have to predict what's coming next and decide to spot dodge or shield.

On the ground, we lose the spacing game. In the air we win with Bair and Uair. We win with Fair if we attack first

 

[FalKoopa]

Can I request a few match-up ratios?

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Hmm.... I'll say 45/55 Diddy

 

[MrTeddyBear]

I don't have that much experience with top-level Diddys so all I can give are tips

Fireballs clank with thrown Bananas, Diddy's side B kick beats our Fireballs but not the side B grab. D-Throw to Down-B doesn't kill until around 130%, so use D-Throw Up-B instead (provided that you're good at hititng with the Up-B and can read their DI.) or D-Throw B-Air near the ledge.

At low percents since Diddy is too heavy to do the D-Throw x2 Fair combo on, you would want to do D-Throw Fair and then fastfall right before you do an U-Air. You can do D-Throw Fair Nair too, but with U-Air you can actually follow up with another grab or jab/u-tilt after it since it has less landing lag than N-Air.

Learn to JC-throw the banana, you slide really far when doing it so it can help you approach or escape, and if you JC-throw it forwards you will be right in front of the Diddy and be able to land an Up-B before he can react.

If Diddy tries to do a D-tilt chain at higher percents you can escape it with a well-placed Nair, so he won't be able to follow up from the D-Tilt with a grab or an U-Air.

If you're getting juggled by U-Airs then you can use B-reverse fireballs on the air before the attack to throw them off and escape the string.

That's all I have for now, I'm probably gonna put more stuff on it when I have more stuff figured out.

 

[wildvine47]

Well Luigis, looks like this matchup was well timed. We're discussing you ourselves over at the Diddy boards. If you've got the chance, please hop by and weigh in.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

I'm not that good at giving mu ratios but 45-55 in diddy's favor does sound right. Luigi has the ability to fight diddy without too much trouble as well as tools to take advantage of diddy's downsides (one being recovery). Diddy should fear our throws just as much as everyone fears his because we get more reward from a dthrow than diddy does (especially at lower percent).