Match-up Help: Ness vs. Olimar

[ZutoChokw]

Me and my brother play brawl a lot together, and we have fun. I need some help though. His main character is Olimar, and my main is Ness. He usually beats me with this match-up, but when I win, it's usually because I got the Smash Ball.

Here is his strategy: Olimar stands on one side of the stage and spams Pikmin Throw. Whenever I try to get close, he uses his side smash, which sends me flying, and starts to dodge rolls his ways to the other side of the stage. Rinse, repeat. I'll occasionally catch him with my up-smash, but that doesn't compensate for the damage he racks up with Pikmin Throw, and he is hard to juggle, since he has fast aerial attacks. His Pikmin usually intercept PK Thunder, and PK Fire doesn't affect red Pikmin. I'll sometimes dodge the side smash, but he has already gotten way from me by then.

How can I stop this attack sooner and keep my damage low when I attack him? If you need more details, just ask and I'd be happy to provide them.

 

[Excellence]

Ness actually has the advantage in this match-up because he completely outprioritizes Olimar. You seem a bit new to Smash so I'll try and give you the basics of the match-up. As Ness, your goal is to either keep Olimar pinned to the sides of the stage or offstage. The latter of the two is better. Pikmin spam is NOT a problem for Ness at all. Whenever he spams Side Smash or Side Special you hit them with PK fire and form a Pillar wall. That'll defend you from anymre and keep him from moving. Neutral Aerial is good to remove ANY Pikmin that may have lached on Ness and he can do this repeadily.

You mention him rolling to the other side of the stage. I don't know why you haven't been punishing this because again, this is a predictable strategy and Olimar doesn't have the same caliber roll as say Lucario or Meta Knight. You should punish him whichever way is best. Olimar's speed isn't as good as yours because as Ness you never have to touch the ground other than to renew your jumps or BThrow Olimar to his doom. To approach you can use rising Neutral Air then follow up depending on his response or you can use rising forward aerial and punish his response.

As far as killing Olimar, NAir works best because he has no choice but to whistle. Nothing he has besides Up Air and Neutral Air can go against and and both of those are bad choices offstage. PK Thunder isn't too bad for choking up his recovery. He's still vulnerable until he pulls his body to the ledge.

You never want to attack Olimar's shield or be directly over him without a hitbox to stop his attacks and even then be warry of his Up Smash, Tether, and Up Aerial.

 

[Jiffyboob]

I don't think this is in Ness's favor honestly. Olimar's onstage game is just too good imo.

NAir is a great move for this MU though.

 

[M]

PK fire his Pikmin throws Smashes.

Nair a lot, whether it be to remove Pikmin, or to deal quick damage.

Forward throw is extremely useful as to bring Olimar to his most feared part of any stage. And to gimp, try and steal a jump with the tail of PKT, or even just try and stop him from getting any closer. Try and avoid jumping off stage to gimp him however, if he DOES grab that ledge, the situation completely reverses.

Try and Fair less, or not much at all on a grounded Olimar, he has the range and speed to punish it quite well.

 

[Eagleye893]

Never land unsafely. Never airdodge to the ground, unless behind an unsuspecting oli or very far away. Basically, the ground sucks for you. Just be safe in the air, but don't be predictable.


When near ledge and grabbing oli, Pummel like mad and make him go down. Then either falling nair or pkt or something to keep insane pressure. Just don't get spike'd or stagespiked. If you do get hit by something, be sure to tech the stage and DJ immediately while airdodging. Don't risk TOO much.

Fthrow is good, but only when not close enough to the ledge. After Fthrow, wait for him to come to you, but keep him from coming back to the stage easily. Space fair extremely well or hit with sourspot nair. Dair will only be if you are lucky.

Random: If ledgehog, and Oli is barely able to hop over you with his upb, is it possible to drop, DJ, and dair just in time to catch the oli immediately after he uses upb? Maybe needs to be seen.

PKfire at a distance. Don't EVER get too close. Freaking grab range hates me. If he pikmin spams, time some bats. If you get latched, nair them off.

About the grab, as I said before NEVER AIRDODGE TO GROUND PREDICTABLY!!!! IT IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!! IT'S ASKING TO GET GRABBED!!! Be safe when landing. Never allow Oli the punish on your land.

FH pkfire is good to get at him sometimes. If shielded, expect to be grabbed. I'm pretty sure at least.

KEEP OLI OFF THE GROUND IF YOU CAN!!! GROUNDED OLI MEANS PIKMIN CAN BE REGENERATED!! YOU DON'T WANT HIM GETTING PIKMIN BACK! easier said than done. By a lot. what I mean is either fthrow offstage, uthrow and followup right, or utilt/uair and followup right. Sure, you can use other things to rack damage, but keep this idea in mind.

Don't approach too much. In fact, try not to approach at all. If you can' force his approach. It's very difficult, but it can happen.

PKjump is an okay approach against oli, but there's the threat of a good reaction, such as a well placed usmash or grab or whatever. With these, you need to know where you'll land or if you can maneuver to a better landing area. Keep protected with either airdodge or bair or uair or nair. Fair only if you are shifting to moving backwards after the forward push. It's AN approach, but not THE approach. In fact, only really use this sparingly. That's what I do, but it does well when used right.

main points:
Keep safe.
Try to get him offstage or above you.
PKfire is your friend.
Nair off pikmin.
Don't approach predictably (see the keep safe point), or try not to approach. Lure the oli.
watch for insane range on grabs.
uair/usmash are evil things of his.
he has good range everywhere, actually.
whatever else.

EDIT: as with everyone, don't forget dash attack to punish. it's an awesome move.

 

[ZutoChokw]

Thanks for the help! I will try some of these tips in our next match. But perhaps I made myself sound too new to Smash Brothers, I'm not completely helpless in our matches . I've been playing for about 3 months. Again thanks, I'll be practicin' all these new techniques!

 

[Man of Popsicle]

As soon as I saw the word "smash ball", any advice I had thought of flew out of my brain.

 

[Eagleye893]

As soon as I saw the word "smash ball", any advice I had thought of flew out of my brain.

Lol wow... That's why I don't read the OP... Wait a minute... xD

 

[Bartolon]

Try to get the smash ball first and use PK starstorm.

 

[Yink]

I'll give general tips, taken from a friend and from the Oli guides:

Know what the pikmin do...yellow and red are the WORST. Why? This is mostly why:


Yellows:
1. Yellow has good range
2. Long hitbox
3. Lob when thrown, instead of going straight
4. Immune to Electric attacks (DO NOT USE PK THUNDER!)

Reds:
1. Good knockback
2. Resistant to Fire attacks (DO NOT USE PK FIRE!)

Purples:
1. Good health
2. Short range
3. Can be used for throw kills ~ uthrow
4. Strong knockback and damage

Blues:
1. Survive in water
2. Decent in everything
3. Used for throw kills ~ bthrow or fthrow

Whites:
1. Does the most damage when pummeling
2. Also when latched onto someone, does most damage
3. Easy to kill, due to frailness

And I'd have more to say but...generally if you can break down how Olimar works, it's a lot easier to fight him and win. Pay attention to his pikmin a lot.

 

[Asa]

Pay attention to his pikmin a lot.

Ya this is THE most underrated piece of advice against oli

watch his lineup as closely as he watches it

 

[Greward]

pick up a star, then a bomb omb, then approach him and throw the bomb omb to the ground, ull be invincible and hell die, then say good game give me tha maney

u can also use fair but thats too dificult

in addition if u destroy a smash ball and press B ull probably kill him. if ur playing with wiimote i dunno im that much of a noob.

 

[Bartolon]

Good read, indeed.

 

[Uffe]

Great info. Especially from Excellence. Though I still think the match-up is dead even.