Match-Up Export #8: Wario | In-depth Discussion

[Lightning93]

Okay here's the thing, we can't actually approach Wario easily, we compromise too much momentum that Wario can easily counter. I'm a little interested to see how efficiently blocking lasers with a bike works, but otherwise, the main point being is that Fox has the tools to force an approach, and tools to counter said approach. Wario can weave as much as he'd like, but I don't believe it's possible to completely dodge SHTL/SHDL/SHSL unless Fox is completely flaunting his lasering pattern.

Wario hits hard though, and the more time you spend camping, the more dangerous his waft becomes... damage output averaged over time, you'd be surprised to see that Wario and Fox do about the same...

 

[Hanzhou]

I'd rather him have a fully charged waft than a semi charged. Also I think that bike for block thing is gimmicky. Laser autocancels and biking to block lasers can lead into a nair or w/e aerial and possibly grab if he wheelies.

 

[Juno McGrath]

bike still hits you during a wheelie.

nice try.

but cant let you nair the bike, STARFOX.

 

[Conviction]

OoS Nair Anyone? Or OoS Usmash?

 

[Juno McGrath]

Wario can Oos Bdacus i think.

Or nair.

or almost anything better than fox.

trust me i secondary fox. Not many options against bike/bite/waft.

 

[Conviction]

Idk you were understanding what I was saying....
OoS Nair/Usmash the bike wheelie.

 

[Juno McGrath]

the bike wheelie has more priority im sure.

it has a hit box that people forget about so easily.

 

[Conviction]

Idk I want vids >.<

 

[Juno McGrath]

Lol. fine ill have one by the weekend.

 

[Conviction]

Lol cool! We should.

 

[Hanzhou]

I play my friend's wario a bit. I grabbed him off bike while he was doing a wheelie. Idk if it was grab armor I forget.

 

[Lightning93]

Is it that hard to shield the bike?

Bite beats a lot of what we have at close range, messes up our strings and such. If we're firing lasers at far range I don't see why I should be worried about it though...

 

[Juno McGrath]

No its not most foxes just....dont.

most people who try to start the match off by camping a projectile dont expect the bike to be that fast or something.

for whatever john, the bike will most likely hit them.

 

[PhantomX]

Bike sucks against shields, obviously that's why you use it when opponents are doing something like SHDL or SHTL, because they're gonna land, and you hit them when they're landing and can't do anything about it. Then Wario edgeguards, which he's amazing at.

 

[Juno McGrath]

lol forward air.

 

[C.R.Z]

Bike sucks against shields, obviously that's why you use it when opponents are doing something like SHDL or SHTL, because they're gonna land, and you hit them when they're landing and can't do anything about it. Then Wario edgeguards, which he's amazing at.

er no, theres no lag from shtl. the bike would be easily shielded in time.remember guys this is if both characters are being played to the best of there ability.that means perfect zoning and spacing etc.

 

[Lightning93]

Yeah we can shield immediately after landing, if you manage to hit us during the actual jump though, that works.

 

[Juno McGrath]

i give up. being able to shield the bike doesn't change the fact that its 60-40 in warios favor.

 

[C.R.Z]

i give up. being able to shield the bike doesn't change the fact that its 60-40 in warios favor.

its really not, its 50 50 max for wario. you may think you know the match up if you have played fox before but its very unlikely they played him the way he should be played.

 

[Lord Chair]

This thread smells of ignorance. 60-40 Wario, it has already been completely covered.

 

[Lightning93]

Well... I don't necessarily disagree with 60:40, but I haven't seen a good case supporting this ratio. Just basic statements like the one above.

 

[C.R.Z]

its not ignorance, the reason why wario's think the ratio is so high is because even the best fox player doesnt play the matchup perfectly, match up discussions are if both characters are played perfectly, not if the best players of both characters play each other.

light also makes a good point, which only hurts the wario pro match ups validity.


EDIT: played a really pro wario yesterday and i was pretty much correct about the matchup. it felt like 55-45 to fox but that was me not knowing how to fight against his aerials(and i still won). its 60-40 if both plays know what their doing, im positive on this

 

[Clash 1991]

i've beaten a bunch of good worios just gotta out camp the camper yo

 

[Conviction]

That has been said already. Next time please look at the date of a thread before you post something or just read the thread the so you won't repeat what others have said.

Welcome to the boards.

 

[Lesleyk]

It really depends what kinda wario you are playing against. Reading this thread I saw a lot of ignorance, Its a shame it has to go this way.
I secondary Wario for some expierence. Fox has a lot of strings on Wario(luckily), but never forget. Wario does has a lot of strings on Fox too because of Fox his fast falling speed. Fox his light weight issue doesn't make this MU any easier.

Wario has the most powerfull attack in the game, his smart waft(or whatever its called these days). I would say for a Fox user this is a race against time. With an 8:00 minute time limit Wario can do atleast 5!! of these wafts. You'll only have 3 stocks!, camping against a Wario will not do you any favour, eventually you'll have to go for the killmove. A fox user should closely watch the timer too. His waft is strongest at 1:30 so be prepared!

I didn't even mention his Fsmash, Ftilt and Uair yet. Its quite easy to refresh your moves with Wario, I don't know exactly at what % Fox would be killed with those moves, but Im guessing around 90~100% ?

What Im trying to say here is that a Fox user most be well prepared and know his MU. I don't think its quite the same though for a Wario. We all know that Fox is being underrated by allot of people, but in this MU Fox has to really know what he's dealing with.

Knowing this MU I would say 55:45 Wario's favour. Otherwise 60:40 Wario's favour

 

[Hanzhou]

90-100 from fsmash or ftilt is mostly with bad DI

 

[Lightning93]

90-100 from fsmash or ftilt is mostly with bad DI

Uair is still pretty dangerous. Stage 3 waft is just plain scary.

 

[Elite Cowdung]

Wario is too good vs fox. he can just own him with like all of his moves and fox cant do anything about it