Meta Match Up Discussion - Vs. Pit/Dark Pit

[---]

General Rules:

• No Flaming. Respect the opinions of others even if you disagree. Let's not get heated on an online forum for a family-friendly game. Failure to abide by this will result in the wrath of the law.
• Human error isn't something worth serious consideration. Discussions will assume both characters are being played to utmost potential.

The following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/deter approaches
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• Suggested custom movesets
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall score [NOTE: THIS IS NOT AS IMPORTANT DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF DISCUSSION]

***For general questions not related to the current topic in this thread please use the General Match Up thread.***

This thread shall last for around 8-9 days, with the next thread opening up in about 5-7 days.

 

[BarSoapSoup]

I feel it's about even. They don't have a lot of moves that are safe on shield, ultra linear recovery, and M2 has plenty of tools to keep the Pits under his thumb. On the other hand, they are, in general, quite fast and have a reflector, so we have to watch out for that.

If we get a close range shadow ball, and get a multi-reflect with confusion when they use orbitars, we can break their shields and send them to the moon.

 

[meleebrawler]

I feel it's about even. They don't have a lot of moves that are safe on shield, ultra linear recovery, and M2 has plenty of tools to keep the Pits under his thumb. On the other hand, they are, in general, quite fast and have a reflector, so we have to watch out for that.

If we get a close range shadow ball, and get a multi-reflect with confusion when they use orbitars, we can break their shields and send them to the moon.

I wouldn't exactly call the Pit's recovery ultra-linear, they have enough mixup potential with multiple ju.mps and a long up b to not make it too easy to punish.

Expect them to try and play just outside Mewtwo's dtilt range, ready to punish with dash attack.

Pit can harass you with arrows offstage, which shouldn't be much of a problem for Mewtwo but just mind that they don't steal your jump. Dark Pit is slightly easier due to his less-versatile arrows, but he can kill you much earlier with Electroshock if you mess up.

 

[Aninymouse]

You very rarely see Pits use their Orbitars, but against Mewtwo, you better believe the temptation is there.

On-stage, in the neutral? They don't call Pit "Sword Puff" for nothing... Pit is great at using short hop aerials to control space, and his disjointed hitboxes definitely out-range anything Mewtwo has. You can't challenge the side B except with Confusion, even if it is slow to start. Shadow Ball would be nice to catch the start-up frames, but if you delay then it'll just get batted away. Pit's dash attack is every bit as good as ours for neutral approach. I think that Mewtwo's Confusion must be overused in this matchup, since it is Mewtwo's biggest disjoint and it trumps super armor. I've never tried to hit the Orbitars with Confusion, and that is a very unlikely scenario to occur, but I'd be interested to know if Confusion beats Orbitars. Pit has a better grab range, so turtling in Shield is not the best idea (it never is as Mewtwo). Air dodge is your friend, as usual. I think that Mewtwo's Fair and Dtilt are a bit faster than Pit's favorite moves on startup, so you might be able to out-speed him at times.

Dark Pit's arrows are easy to deflect, but Pit's arrows are a real concern when Mewtwo is off-stage. Thankfully, Mewtwo's good air speed and air dodge can help you avoid arrow spam when recovering.

Other than that, it seems like business as usual.

Try and spike their recovery if you can.

I feel like this is a pretty even matchup. Both characters have projectiles, reflectors (Pit has two), good recovery, and a similar range on the ground. Pit out-ranges Mewtwo in the air.

Larry Lurr vs Rich Brown in September

 

[Wintropy]

reflectors (Pit has two)

Just want to point out that, technically, Pit's side-b isn't a reflector. Not in the traditional sense. It's more of a "disruptor" than anything: it knocks the projectile away, but at a non-threatening angle. It doesn't send it right back as other reflectors (Orbies included). This may make it safer than Orbies in this matchup, since the last thing you want to do is reflect Shadow Ball only for it to be re-reflected and pelted back in your face. But since side-b reflector has dreadful recovery frames, it's not really a good idea either. I wouldn't worry too much about Pit's reflectors.

Otherwise, well said, just wanted to get that out of the way~ :3

 

[Browny]

I've never found Pit or Dark Pit difficult.

Pit's greatest strength is his ability to trap landings with his deadly upsmash and of course, the yolo sideb approach.

If you are being juggled by pit, just recover to the ledge or teleport far away from him, hes too slow to punish that. This isnt like fox or Sheik who will run up and kill you for trying to avoid their landing traps. As long as you avoid his juggles he seriously struggles to land a kill move. Sideb is something you just have to deal with though and its tricky. Just dont try to brute force your way out of the ledge because thats when they use it most, to trade with those attacks. Get to centre stage by any other means.

His recovery is easy bait for Mewtwos nair. Take him down ones with it, then as he uses it again to recovery you will find it much easier to fair/bair/dair him.

If they use sideb to recover you can actually file a FCSB and the animation of him deflecting the shadow ball lasts so long you can get a punish on that (I think)

 

[TheRealSkid]

Nair happy pits can be a problem sometimes. I personally switch to the ditto in this matchup due to pits air superiority. The nair and fair are just too long and too fast for me to effectively stop. I know this is an even matchup but another reason I hate using mewtwo for it is just because matchups like the pit or the cloud matchup are uncomfortable for me as mewtwo and just come easily as pit.