Meta Match Up Discussion - Vs. Pikachu

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Magical Talking Psychic Cat Monster vs. Cute Cheeky Electric Mouse Thing

General Rules:

• No Flaming. Respect the opinions of others even if you disagree. Let's not get heated on an online forum for a family-friendly game. Failure to abide by this will result in the wrath of the law.
• Human error isn't something worth serious consideration. Discussions will assume both characters are being played to utmost potential.

The following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/deter approaches
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• Suggested custom movesets
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall score [NOTE: THIS IS NOT AS IMPORTANT DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF DISCUSSION]

***For general questions not related to the current topic in this thread please use the General Match Up thread.***

This thread shall last for around 8-9 days, with the next thread opening up in about 5-7 days.

 

[Sonicninja115]

The number one thing I hate about this MU is how many things pika can duck or avoid. The harder combos are almost impossible against him.

Advice, pika has a lot of ending lag on multiple aerials, punish with SB if you get a minor read or notice your opponent just throwing it out.

 

[Clock Tower Prison]

Shadow Ball + Confusion is very helpful as it stops Pikachu's Mario like approach only Pikachu does not have a reflector to save him so more than likely he will either jump or shield.

 

[meleebrawler]

Pikachu can be very annoying to hit with how many of his moves lower his hurtbox significantly and quick attack causing headaches, but luckily dtilt is just as efficient as ever so that should be the go-to punish move here.

Play patiently; Mewtwo has a range advantage on most fronts but Pikachu is quick to punish hasty attempts to catch him.

One really big point in Mewtwo's favour here, though, is how he can largely negate Pikachu's edgeguarding, one of his biggest strengths. You can stall out from farther than even the little mouse is willing to go, and if he does try Mewtwo gains an opportunity teleport back to the stage quickly. Because of this Mewtwo actually has a higher survival rate than a lot of characters with lesser recoveries, especially since Pikachu doesn't have the best time setting up kills on stage.

 

[Shady Shaymin]

The number one thing I hate about this MU is how many things pika can duck or avoid. The harder combos are almost impossible against him.

Advice, pika has a lot of ending lag on multiple aerials, punish with SB if you get a minor read or notice your opponent just throwing it out.

Endlag on multiple aerials? All of his aerials autocancel on shorthop except for back air. Fair is safe on shield now post shield stun patch, too.

If you want to punish pikachu, throw out disjoints on quick attack reads, go to town on whiffed fsmash, etc.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Endlag on multiple aerials? All of his aerials autocancel on shorthop except for back air. Fair is safe on shield now post shield stun patch, too.

If you want to punish pikachu, throw out disjoints on quick attack reads, go to town on whiffed fsmash, etc.

Bair and Uair as well as Dair, and Nair to some extent. They may autocancels out of a SH, but a landing hitbox is improbable. Thus, punish players if they make that mistake.

 

[Nobie]

You can challenge Pikachu's fair with a fair of your own. In ESAM's TGC6 summary he talks about how good Mewtwo's fair is in that matchup.

just having a Shadow Ball charged can make Pikachu wary of trying to approach with Thunder Jolts. You have to then worry about the REST of Pikachu's approaches (Quick Attack, etc.), but you basically have a full arsenal to combat whatever Pikachu can throw at you.

The way Pikachu pancakes after aerials is super annoying because grabs whiff, and you have to train yourself to go for something like d-tilt instead (which is of course just a good move in general). If you do land a grab you at least know you can do some damage.

 

[Yonder]

Does that glitch where Pikachu can't dash grab M2 from behind still work? Because that could be useful here...

 

[KieRanaRan]

I would say given Pikachu's very limited kill options on stage you can kinda predict when they're coming if you're playing smart? Also remember that M2 has a nice big shield to soak up some hits and a slightly bigger range thanks to the tail.

 

[Mr. B]

I have never successfully done so on a serious/non-spammy Pikachu player, but Confusion reflecting Thunder is absolutely hilarious if you can get the read...

 

[Browny]

DI his upthrow away from him and you wont die to thunder. I know its not always easy to react since its so fast, but you should naturally DI all of pikas throws away so the instant you get grabbed dont focus on mashing, focus on getting your DI right.

In neutral, dont be afraid to stand at the ledge with shadowball charged. Pikachu cant reliably quick attack you without risking dying and he also risks a shadowball in the back since you can fire it out of shield as you can always expect him to quick attack into you, then retreat where he came from.

Don't waste your time trying to edgeguard him, charge a shadowball instead. You should have one as often as possible since if you ever predict a SH thunderjolt, throw SB immediately and its a guaranteed hit unless pika did it from double jump height. You should always pay attention to the height pika throws the TJ out at since that determines if hes going to get the huge landing lag from it, or have time to upb away.

Don't try to auto snap the ledge since that sets you up for easy pikachu gimps. With this TJ and bair, going for the ledge is just asking to be 2-framed and then daired if the bair doesnt stagespike you which isnt the easiest thing in the world to tech. Go near the ledge then confusion/teleport to land as far away from Pikachu as possible.

The matchup is hard because Mewtwo can really struggle to hit a highly mobile pikachu, but if people do the above four things, youll find that you will rarely ever die early to pikachu and you yourself will kill him early as FCSB is without a doubt the easiest kill move you have on Pikachu who risks dying every time he approaches at anywhere above like 90%.

 

[Megamang]

Our killing power is the biggest advantage we have. It isnt impossible that you will fill your rage all the way if youre very careful, and then pika's light frame is very vulnerable to uthrow kills, bthrow kills, or even fair kills.

 

[Quantumpen]

I find this match-up really difficult. I have a hard time dealing with quick attack and because of that pikachu always seems to be in my face -- where I have a tough time keeping up with him. I spend most of the match blocking only really getting punishes on read throws.

Do you guys have any approach/get off me tricks in this MU?

 

[Megamang]

Lab with QA until you know how to beat it. Sh fair can hit the extended hurtbox while letting you clear the hitbox. Powershielding the second hit can net a running grab. Dash attack probably beats it outright.

 

[godogod]

Almost forgot pikachu is heavier than mewtwo. Damn.

 

[Quantumpen]

So for anyone else who has trouble with quick attack, nair seems to beat it pretty consistently. If you expect a quick attack or he tries to get in go for a nair, if you catch him in it you can even get a fair/bair after it depending your DI.

 

[godogod]

I usually shield and I'm totally good, but that's great too.