Mastering the Pocket Puppy - for those with Megaman Matchup troubles

[Darklink401]

Pocketed Rush

I feel this item has been EXTREMELY overlooked when talking about the Megaman matchup (which we all know, is one of our worse ones)

However, it can be extremely useful if used well.

For starters, let's clarify that you CAN refresh Rush, by placing him down and repocketing him.

Now...into the juicy stuff.

- Pocketed Rush has about 1.5x the spring power as regular Rush.

- It IS possible, when falling, to land on Pocketed Rush to recover (this gives you back your double jump) Ideally, you can b-reverse pocket as you use your midair jump, so Rush spawns right under you. You can also just release him and fall, he falls faster, and will boost you up anyways.

- You can act immediately from this, and an airdodge will cover the entire rush trajectory, basically making your entire spring jump invincible.

- If you and Megaman land on the same Rush, he will go higher than you, and Megaman's got no fast options that can cover him from below, so it's an easy upair kill off the top, unless he airdodges (however, due to turnip's lingering hitbox, it will likely hit him anyways)


What does this mean? Since pocketing metal blade isn't too useful, and pocketing crash bomb is...meh (depends, can lead into axe shieldbreak, but situational use) It's smart to always have Rush in pocket, because he basically prevents you from being edgeguarded by Megaman, as well as providing safe shield pressure if you release Rush, into dair, as Rush will pop you up, so you don't suffer landing lag (and an obvious uptilt OoS, or shieldgrab, etc)

Thoughts? Ideas on how to use Rush?

Don't get me wrong, but I feel we're on the verge of a breakthrough that might just make this matchup quite even ;P


Oh BTW, Villy-Megaman Doubles teams would be even more silly because of this.

 

[Deezxnutz]

This seems interesting, I wanna see video or something showcasing this.
Also how would we be able to obtain Rush anyway? Usually MMs will recover low which means we'd have to go even deeper to attempt to pocket it.

 

[trevskeet]

Wait...I thought the ability to pocket Rush and Sonic's spring and Pac-Man's trampoline was patched out ages ago?

 

[Moosseff]

I mean the only real time I see getting a pocket is when megaman does an upthrow to up B to up air and it misses, most megamans dont do that in terms of competitive play (Also I think that mega blade is quite usefull because of the added sheildstun and hitstun can lead into grabs, aerials, Down smash, etc)

 

[MillionGoldMan]

Wait...I thought the ability to pocket Rush and Sonic's spring and Pac-Man's trampoline was patched out ages ago?

I think it was just pac man and sonic

 

[AnchorTea]

I think it was just pac man and sonic

And this is why Sakurai's game balancing skills are stale.

Darkl0nk, could this work just as well well with the larger pocket custom? If so, then Large Pocket can be good against a character with decent spacing skills.

 

[Darklink401]

This seems interesting, I wanna see video or something showcasing this.
Also how would we be able to obtain Rush anyway? Usually MMs will recover low which means we'd have to go even deeper to attempt to pocket it.

You're Villager, are you implying you can't?

Villager's pocket is suuuper huge, and Megaman can't really do anything immediately out of his up B, so we can pocket it safely. It's worth it.

I mean the only real time I see getting a pocket is when megaman does an upthrow to up B to up air and it misses, most megamans dont do that in terms of competitive play (Also I think that mega blade is quite usefull because of the added sheildstun and hitstun can lead into grabs, aerials, Down smash, etc)

Metal blade is broken by pellets tho =/

 

[JohnnyB]

(Also I think that mega blade is quite usefull because of the added sheildstun and hitstun can lead into grabs, aerials, Down smash, etc)

Don't pocket the metal blade. It's faster and better to catch them. If you pocket he can still throw them, even if you pull it out. If you catch he can't, and it's sooo much faster. Trying to pocket metal blade is a winning situation for Mega Man.

 

[Moosseff]

But even if youre going deep to grab rush that sets you up for an edgeguard by megaman which is what he accels at .-.

 

[Darklink401]

But even if youre going deep to grab rush that sets you up for an edgeguard by megaman which is what he accels at .-.

.....He...excels at edgeguarding??? what?

Bair is literally his only good move for edgeguarding. Dair is too predictable, fair is too weak, and nair....wouldn't be great vs Villager.

 

[Moosseff]

Go watch styles edgeguard, his long hitboxes and mega blade make him a character you gotta respect offstage

 

[Darklink401]

Go watch styles edgeguard, his long hitboxes and mega blade make him a character you gotta respect offstage

I do watch Styles, and that's why I'm telling you that Megaman does NOT excel at edgeguarding. He's good at it? sure. But he's renowned for his heavy zoning gaming (which makes him arguably top 20ish)

That being said, most characters with good recovery can edgeguard, so....xD

 

[Moosseff]

Lol true On stage hes good off stage hes good but hes got a predictable recovery and I would much rather take adavantage of that rather than me droping down, LETTING him get back on stage and set me up for a ledgeguard all for a dog I might not even use in 30 seconds

 

[Darklink401]

Lol true On stage hes good off stage hes good but hes got a predictable recovery and I would much rather take adavantage of that rather than me droping down, LETTING him get back on stage and set me up for a ledgeguard all for a dog I might not even use in 30 seconds

No he doesn't.

Suit yourself tho, I for one, have confidence in getting back onstage vs a Megaman.

 

[Mtn64]

No he doesn't.

Suit yourself tho, I for one, have confidence in getting back onstage vs a Megaman.

Actually, I will be trying this out and applying it in my local.
I'm all for new things Villager, and honestly had no idea Rush was placed under villager when he put it out.
I think, because I've practiced so much catching items with grab, this is probably the pocket of choice in the match up and I'll be sure to try it out in practice mode and in matches before using it in competitive play.
I also think that the whole "it's too scary for us to go offstage" thing against Megaman isnt really true. He's committed to one line of play offstage. The moment he thinks you're going sideways, he's forced to BAir. If you're under, he's gonna drop the sawblade and go for DAir. I don't think getting back to the stage once to ensure we're fine later in the game and even setup for off the top kills is a bad way to use this move.
Thanks Darklink!
PS Darklink401 Does Rush pop you up if your standing still? If so, does it pop grounded opponents? Dsmash rush UAir kills?

 

[Darklink401]

Actually, I will be trying this out and applying it in my local.
I'm all for new things Villager, and honestly had no idea Rush was placed under villager when he put it out.
I think, because I've practiced so much catching items with grab, this is probably the pocket of choice in the match up and I'll be sure to try it out in practice mode and in matches before using it in competitive play.
I also think that the whole "it's too scary for us to go offstage" thing against Megaman isnt really true. He's committed to one line of play offstage. The moment he thinks you're going sideways, he's forced to BAir. If you're under, he's gonna drop the sawblade and go for DAir. I don't think getting back to the stage once to ensure we're fine later in the game and even setup for off the top kills is a bad way to use this move.
Thanks Darklink!
PS Darklink401 Does Rush pop you up if your standing still? If so, does it pop grounded opponents? Dsmash rush UAir kills?

That's why I <3 you Mtn.

And sadly, no, he doesn't pop you off on the ground D=

Something interesting tho, I've actually been able to repocket right after I was popped up, but it was only once (and it looked weird)

so not sure what went on there xD but if you could repocket after using it, it'd be a super good recovery tool that you can keep on using throughout the match.

 

[Moosseff]

I'll try and find rush setups but its gonna be weird :/ I can get on stage vs megaman easily but nothings stopping him fron droping down and bairing you. Its a good tool dont get me wrong :D its just that I wouldnt do it in tourney simply because you would have to practise rush setups A LOT and under 30 seconds. Plus you get this feeling like Oh I better try and set up rush because hes gone in 30 seconds so let me throw out a few setups that can be punished...

 

[Darklink401]

I'll try and find rush setups but its gonna be weird :/ I can get on stage vs megaman easily but nothings stopping him fron droping down and bairing you. Its a good tool dont get me wrong :D its just that I wouldnt do it in tourney simply because you would have to practise rush setups A LOT and under 30 seconds. Plus you get this feeling like Oh I better try and set up rush because hes gone in 30 seconds so let me throw out a few setups that can be punished...

You can refresh Rush, though, so there's no...

...

rush.

 

[ThatStrangeDoll]

this(https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3qfvoz/platform_bounce_canceling_tutorial_feat_sonic/) was posted on reddit a little while ago, i really havent run any tests yet but i imagine it may be useful for landing a surprise bowling ball in stages like smashville.

 

[Mtn64]

That's why I <3 you Mtn.

And sadly, no, he doesn't pop you off on the ground D=

Something interesting tho, I've actually been able to repocket right after I was popped up, but it was only once (and it looked weird)

so not sure what went on there xD but if you could repocket after using it, it'd be a super good recovery tool that you can keep on using throughout the match.

I was able to replicate re pocketing twice in the past hour at 1/4x speed
I was not able to figure out a consistent method, but I have a few ideas.
On the first time I got it, I breversed my momentum just before the apex of my jump, then spammed pocket.
The second time I got it, I did a turnaround pocket and reacted to where it was (1/4x speed) and held right; in normal speed it'd be unnoticeable, but I was able to mash B and pocket after jumping.
My assumption is the animation of you throwing the rush needs to end before you jump on it; that said you'd probably have to get it down muscle memory to abuse but that would mean insta doggy recovery all the time meaning ez time in MU.
I'm sure its obvious, but you can re pocket doggy offstage as well with breverses as you go down, or just dropping it as you go down and repocket.
Let me know what you find, really interested to see how this plays out!

 

[Darklink401]

I was able to replicate re pocketing twice in the past hour at 1/4x speed
I was not able to figure out a consistent method, but I have a few ideas.
On the first time I got it, I breversed my momentum just before the apex of my jump, then spammed pocket.
The second time I got it, I did a turnaround pocket and reacted to where it was (1/4x speed) and held right; in normal speed it'd be unnoticeable, but I was able to mash B and pocket after jumping.
My assumption is the animation of you throwing the rush needs to end before you jump on it; that said you'd probably have to get it down muscle memory to abuse but that would mean insta doggy recovery all the time meaning ez time in MU.
I'm sure its obvious, but you can re pocket doggy offstage as well with breverses as you go down, or just dropping it as you go down and repocket.
Let me know what you find, really interested to see how this plays out!

hmm...will experiment with this.
So basically, waiting a bit to bounce, before trying to repocket? The window's probably really small xD

 

[Tommy - S.N.]

After a bit of labbing I found out that Villager's Dash Attack goes through lemons and can still hit Megaman as the pot goes through his Lemons and Metal Blade. Although the downside to this is if he's hit before the pot comes out than the whole animation is canceled and the pot won't appear. I wonder if its use is as effective similar to the DHD mu where it goes through his Frisby and stops his gunmen.