Marths recovery options

[CypherZel]

I was recently told by a good player that one of the reasons why I am losing to him is that I always go for a low recovery, when he told me this I actually couldn't think of another option I could use, so I was wondering if you guys could give me some recovery concepts as well as how good they are and what counters them so I can have a better selection of options

 

[FE_Hector]

First off, I have no idea your exact recovery sequence, but remember to sideB stall and then use your second jump. It gives you a lot more options to mix up your timing. Spinning off of that a bit, you can sometimes just get a DJ sweetspot and avoid having to upB at all. Outside of that, you can upB early and then fall (fast fall???) to ledge instead and mess up their timing.

 

[Shiftyy]

Instead of going low you could try (if you're coming from above) side B stall into airdodge (experiment with airdodge up, toward stage, down, and simply in place), side B stall into falling aerial. You could try early up B even though it's a bad option, it might be enough of a mixup to get you out of that situation once in a while, but not more than that.

 

[Hunybear]

Marth's recovery is definitely something your gonna have to start thinking about. Too many players get edge guarded and say "well marth's recovery is so linear" but honestly that's not the case.
Obviously this is all very character dependent but i'll hit you with some quick notes.
1.) Hold on to your double jump.
This is your life line so don't go wasting it. I've played many'a scrub who double jump right out of hit stun and drift back to the stage, dont. Hold on to your double jump untill your close to the stage again. Your side B's will get you back there so why jump? this is good because if they grab ledge you can DJ fair and knock them off "this stage spikes btw" or if they fall off and areal you simply DJ > up B back. Or better yet if you see them coming at you from off stage DJ Fair them before you get hit. You can also DJ sweet spot the edge as well as do a high Up B and if they hit you with a weak areal back out again you can easily set up a more favorable recovery situation and still have a DJ. just remember YOU NEED MORE OPTIONS CLOSE TO THE STAGE! Not next to a blast zone. also DJ on stage is pretty nice sometimes. Air dodge on works too. Maybe even air dodge up and land on platform?
2.) Intercepting.
This is dangerous but try to keep it in mind. When people try to grab ledge you can hit them with your up B. New players grab edge very slowly and predictably so watching out for their "edge grab sequence" is very handy. They'll get hit by the up B and probably not hit you back cuz they didnt expect the non sweet spot. Whats awesome is sometimes they'll be off stage and hit before they grab edge. This is awesome because marth can do and invisible ledge drop fair or reverse fair. If they are at higher% a FF up B will stage spike (tho determine if they can tech before making that call.) DJ aerials and up B timing mix ups can make edge guarding marth really wonky for a lot of players.
3.) Smart Side B's
Don't do this close to the stage. If you do you'll get hit... If you side B close to the stage you deserve to be hit. Side B is meant to get you back the a position to recover or stall for an opening. Why would you Side B if your already in recovery position right? If you side be while close to the stage your gonna get hit no problem. Shine spikes, Dairs, Knees, you name it. A rule of thumb to use at your own discretion, I only side B until i'm close enough to DJ back. Tho even before that i drift close... After that point they are really only a stalling tool.
4.) Up B mix ups
So i talked a little bit about it but Mixing up Marth's Up B timings isn't just for intercepting edge guard attempts. Going high can put you in a more favorable recovery position. "Go high, win tournaments" Mang0. Lets say you get hit off around mid % and your in a bad spot. You could try to up B sweet spot but that could cost you the stock. Your already low enough to DJ back but they grabbed ledge. You could try to swat them off, but they could easily refresh invisibility and *BOP you. So is Marth gonna really lose his stock around 50ish%. NO because you up B'd on the platform and got Baired of again! Now were coming in High with a double jump at the cost of like 6%! Things arn't looking so bad for our boy after all <3.

Any way im getting stupid on you so happy not dieing! there's a lot more to this but you can play around with the basic crap.

 

[CypherZel]

That advice is helpful but it's advice for players below my skill level, I already do all of that stuff. What I should have said was is there recovery options where marth can get on stage without sweet spotting ledge with double jump

 

[Hunybear]

That advice is helpful but it's advice for players below my skill level, I already do all of that stuff. What I should have said was is there recovery options where marth can get on stage without sweet spotting ledge with double jump

This advice is not for player below your skill level. We're perfect at nothing and you need to practice it more. Not to be mean but almost every time players look for new tech to solve their problems it usually means their not proficient enough in what they already know how to do. Sometimes you'll lose a match just because someone jumps better that you but then make the argument that "I know how to jump" .
Like CC. Just cuz you hold the joy stick down doesn't mean your above understanding more about its practical applications.

 

[CypherZel]

It is because it completely misses what I was asking for as well as tells me things I'm already trying to do are doing . Telling someone something they already know is useless even if they are not perfect at it

 

[Saint Shaden 009]

It is because it completely misses what I was asking for as well as tells me things I'm already trying to do are doing . Telling someone something they already know is useless even if they are not perfect at it

If you already know everything then that means you apply it. Literally everything you need to know is, more or less, in that post. There aren't any other "secret techniques" to learn other than timing mixups and maybe learning to angle your upb, so apply all the knowledge you say you have <3

 

[Hunybear]

If you already know everything then that means you apply it. Literally everything you need to know is, more or less, in that post. There aren't any other "secret techniques" to learn other than timing mixups and maybe learning to angle your upb, so apply all the knowledge you say you have <3

Well not everything is on the post. It was more or less just about how to get back to the stage. I don't believe you've actually "recovered" until you've reached a natural or better position...center stage... That means getting off the edge/platform and taking center stage. New players have a major hard on for the edge reversals but honestly that crap can get you killed more often that it gets kills. That's all besides the point. I didn't even talk about landing on stage and CC to save yourself from early gimps, but that was purposeful because of the likely hood of misuse. I also didn't talk about wall Teching either because then they see new shiny tech and go we'll there's something to practice as appose to actually working on the presented problem "Can't think of anything but going low." (which was addressed.) Then there's all the character specific crap. (FF fox shine to grab ledge, meteor cancels, above or below puff never in front, intercept shine spikes and falcon/sheik fairs) the standard stuff. There's a big conversation here, but i don't see it happening lol unless people are more interested in not dying.

 

[Hawkeye34]

Well not everything is on the post. It was more or less just about how to get back to the stage. I don't believe you've actually "recovered" until you've reached a natural or better position...center stage... That means getting off the edge/platform and taking center stage. New players have a major hard on for the edge reversals but honestly that crap can get you killed more often that it gets kills. That's all besides the point. I didn't even talk about landing on stage and CC to save yourself from early gimps, but that was purposeful because of the likely hood of misuse. I also didn't talk about wall Teching either because then they see new shiny tech and go we'll there's something to practice as appose to actually working on the presented problem "Can't think of anything but going low." (which was addressed.) Then there's all the character specific crap. (FF fox shine to grab ledge, meteor cancels, above or below puff never in front, intercept shine spikes and falcon/sheik fairs) the standard stuff. There's a big conversation here, but i don't see it happening lol unless people are more interested in not dying.

diving a little deeper into the specifics of recovery. I have some trouble getting shine spiked a lot. I am by no means anywhere near where I need to be with my recovery mix ups, but it seems like i get gimped by shines way too much. any advice or tips on avoiding these?

 

[Hunybear]

diving a little deeper into the specifics of recovery. I have some trouble getting shine spiked a lot. I am by no means anywhere near where I need to be with my recovery mix ups, but it seems like i get gimped by shines way too much. any advice or tips on avoiding these?

Yes. Despite shine spikes being super deadly Marth has great tools to counter it. The way you actually counter it is highly dependent on situation.
First we start with being shined off stage. Simply FF when you reach the ledge and you'll snap to it, no problem. It gets possessively more difficult the close to the edge you were shined but nothing a little practice wont fix.

Next you have to keep in mind where your coming in from. High or low, Double jump or not, far or close to the stage. All these things play into a good recovery. Lets eliminate being far from the stage because fox doesn't wanna jump all the way out for the spike just yet. We can also safely say that he wont jump high to shine you because you can still just fall back, DJ and recover low.
Now we know that to be spiked will likely be low at a close proximity to the stage. If You are a good Marth and kept your DJ you can simply swat fox away. This is awesome because if you get the week hit of DJ fair then fox falls below you and you can get your own gimp with up B. If you don't have your DJ you might have to do an early up B or catch him with a side B. (remember to side b close to the stage very VERY conservatively... it'll get you spiked.) Of course Fox can be very tricky. He can CC an up B and just shine you away to death. In this case sweet spot is an option, but that is risky as well. Fox can also shine you from behind your up B tho it's dangerous, but if they are consistent you will die many many times. They can also refresh invisibility to avoid being swatted from the ledge and spike you there. lots of mix ups.

Long and short Raising aerials and Up B mix ups to intercept the shine spike is the standard strat. Don't side B too close to the fox. If you get CC shined out of up B... it happens i guess.