Marth's of SWF: Teach me to DI your throws!

[Praxis]

I'm more a PM player, but I believe this applies to both games. I come from a Brawl background, learning PM. I am primarily a PM Diddy main, but secondary Marth (and thus play Marth when I enter PM side tournaments).

My Melee Marth isn't great- I'm actually significantly better at PM Marth because of the more lax input requirements- but I understand the character.

Funny thing about that, though...learning how to chase throws as Marth doesn't teach you how to avoid them against Marth as well as you'd expect.

In my recent (PM) set with Chip, he repeatedly hits me with dthrow > fsmash and fthrow > fsmash (taking several stocks with a throw > fsmash on the ledge at 40%) because I DI wrong (I thought DIing away would get me too far away to get fsmashed...apparently not).

Can you guys help me understand how to DI Marth's throws?

Thank you all tremendously.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Uthrow
Sends you about 90 degrees above marth. Might be something like 85 or 95 degrees. I forget which. Therefore, you control stick movement should be somewhere between left to right.
Bthrow
This throw sends you at an angle like 60 degrees behind Marth. Therefore, same thing you want to be holding the stick opposite the way he is facing to get the most lateral distance away from Marth.
Dthrow
I believe this angle is something like 45 degrees thrown behind marth. So, very similar to Fthrow expect you should be holding the stick the direction opposite the way Marth is facing to get the most DI away from Marth horizontally.
Fthrow
This gets you at like a 45 degree angle in front of marth. You should be holding the stick the same direction Marth is facing to get the most lateral distance away from Marth to avoid stuff like Fthrow -> Fsmash.

Pretty much in general if you want to get away from Marth as much as possible you should be holding either all the way left or all the way right on the stick. Plus, even if you do not DI the throw you can still attempt to DI the Fsmash to not die so early.

 

[goateeguy]

^No, if you hold directly away from Marth when he fthrows you you can still be hit with fthrow->pivot fsmash. You need to DI *down and away* and techroll away immediately. Same deal for avoiding dthrow-> pivot fsmash. The trick, of course, is that Marths will mix up their dthrows and fthrows and go for pivots on missed DI. In PM, fthrow-fsmash (especially pivot fsmash) is generally more guaranteed than in Melee while dthrow-fsmash is generally less guaranteed than in Melee. Dthrow is frequently used to get people offstage, but you should still DI down and away until very high percents because getting fsmashed offstage is worse than being thrown offstage.

Bthrow doesn't give Marth much because his throw animation is so long. The two uses I've seen for it are getting someone up on a platform behind Marth (in which case you should DI wherever you need to either avoid the platform or prevent him from following it up) or to try and combo into a fulljump bair for the kill at really high percents when not much else works (DJ out).

Uthrow DI is more situational. Heavier/faster falling characters have to worry about regrabs (so the goal is to mix up your DI to make the Marth miss) and falling into a bunch of utilts and uairs (DIing horizontally is best for avoiding these, but know when you can actually make utilt miss, because otherwise you're DIing poorly for it). Lighter characters can get away with horizontal DI and/or a safely used DJ and have to worry more about the positional disadvantage they're now put at than getting combo'd. Whoever you are, use your DJ very carefully, because if you get caught without it you're going to fall down on Marth's sword over and over.

In case you weren't aware, you get optimal DI by inputting a direction perpendicular to the direction you get sent by the move. So, referring back to Marth's fthrow which is a 45 degree angle (I don't actually know that number but it sounds about right), - 45 degrees (directly down and away) is perpendicular and will send you the furthest. DIing straight away from Marth gives you less distance, and you don't hit the ground (which gives you tech options) as fast. It's probably slight, but there also might be a small advantage from DIing down in that Marth's fsmash starts overhead and finishes down and in front of him, so the further down you are the longer his sword swing takes to get to you.

 

[Praxis]

^No, if you hold directly away from Marth when he fthrows you you can still be hit with fthrow->pivot fsmash. You need to DI *down and away* and techroll away immediately. Same deal for avoiding dthrow-> pivot fsmash. The trick, of course, is that Marths will mix up their dthrows and fthrows and go for pivots on missed DI. In PM, fthrow-fsmash (especially pivot fsmash) is generally more guaranteed than in Melee while dthrow-fsmash is generally less guaranteed than in Melee. Dthrow is frequently used to get people offstage, but you should still DI down and away until very high percents because getting fsmashed offstage is worse than being thrown offstage.

Bthrow doesn't give Marth much because his throw animation is so long. The two uses I've seen for it are getting someone up on a platform behind Marth (in which case you should DI wherever you need to either avoid the platform or prevent him from following it up) or to try and combo into a fulljump bair for the kill at really high percents when not much else works (DJ out).

Uthrow DI is more situational. Heavier/faster falling characters have to worry about regrabs (so the goal is to mix up your DI to make the Marth miss) and falling into a bunch of utilts and uairs (DIing horizontally is best for avoiding these, but know when you can actually make utilt miss, because otherwise you're DIing poorly for it). Lighter characters can get away with horizontal DI and/or a safely used DJ and have to worry more about the positional disadvantage they're now put at than getting combo'd. Whoever you are, use your DJ very carefully, because if you get caught without it you're going to fall down on Marth's sword over and over.

In case you weren't aware, you get optimal DI by inputting a direction perpendicular to the direction you get sent by the move. So, referring back to Marth's fthrow which is a 45 degree angle (I don't actually know that number but it sounds about right), - 45 degrees (directly down and away) is perpendicular and will send you the furthest. DIing straight away from Marth gives you less distance, and you don't hit the ground (which gives you tech options) as fast. It's probably slight, but there also might be a small advantage from DIing down in that Marth's fsmash starts overhead and finishes down and in front of him, so the further down you are the longer his sword swing takes to get to you.

Very informative, thank you!

Does DI'ing down and away still avoid the fsmash when you are being throw offstage, since there is no ground to tech?

For example, in this situation at 6:43, I get fthrown offstage, DI away, and get fsmashed. Was the proper DI away + down, or should I have accepted that I will get fsmashed and DI'd up in order to not die from the fsmash?

 

[BurgersPhD]

Very informative, thank you!

Does DI'ing down and away still avoid the fsmash when you are being throw offstage, since there is no ground to tech?

For example, in this situation at 6:43, I get fthrown offstage, DI away, and get fsmashed. Was the proper DI away + down, or should I have accepted that I will get fsmashed and DI'd up in order to not die from the fsmash?

In that situation if you had DI'd down, or down and away, there is a good chance you would have grabbed the ledge avoiding the fsmash.

 

[lokt]

tldr; di down and away
if marth u-throws and you di this way, marth gets an uptilt(depends on percent and character weight), so learn your opponents throw habits(some oldschool marth's never up throw)

 

[goateeguy]

DIing down when offstage can sometimes actually get you under Marth's fsmash hitbox. Plus even if you don't go that low, it still maximizes the distance between you and your opponent because it's perpendicular to the throw angle, so it's your best shot at getting far enough away from him horizontally for it to miss.