Marth's ledge trump to dair spike?

Jucchan · May 3, 2015

When looking for some Japanese Marth strategies, I saw some claims that Marth/Lucina's ledge trump is a guaranteed dair spike on certain characters. I had never heard of this, is it true?
A Vine the demonstrates this: https://vine.co/v/OvZaPDuEULa
According to one source, it works the following way on each character:

Easy: Rosalina, Ganondorf
Somewhat Easy: Captain Falcon, Ness, Bowser, Lucario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Samus, Palutena, Little Mac, Shulk
Possible: Marth, Lucina, Pit, Dark Pit, Diddy Kong, Pac-man, Yoshi, ZSS, Sonic, Villager, Luigi, ROB, Jigglypuff, Robin, Peach, Wario, G&W, Duck Hunt, Olimar, Ike, WFT, Link, Toon Link, DDD
May not be True Combo: Bowser Jr., Kirby
Not True Combo: Mario,Dr. Mario, Sheik, Pikachu, Meta Knight, Charizard
Not Possible: Fox, Falco, Greninja, Mega Man

I was able to get it on Ganondorf a couple times, but I can't tell if it's guaranteed or not.

p90x · May 3, 2015

If you want to try it on a human

Friend Code:0361-9015-0096

fox67890 · May 4, 2015

Please let this be legit...

edit:
https://vine.co/v/OJtLE9rwmOU

!!!

Quickhero · May 4, 2015

I need to learn how the heck I can jump instantly to the right/left after a ledge-grab. I haven't been able to do it consistently at all and often times I just end up jumping upward. :\ Really need help so I can practice this.

LoreLes · May 4, 2015

Was testing this myself and got some really positive results. I'm not sure how well it works on Samus though, the only time I landed it on him was when he jumped after the trump into the dair. Other than that it was nicking people before they could react but this could also mean that they just haven't adapted to it yet.

Quickhero · May 4, 2015

LoreLes said:
Was testing this myself and got some really positive results. I'm not sure how well it works on Samus though, the only time I landed it on him was when he jumped after the trump into the dair. Other than that it was nicking people before they could react but this could also mean that they just haven't adapted to it yet.

I believe you have to do it RIGHT AFTER they grab the ledge, otherwise they jump off a bit too soon and you won't be able to score the d-air. It's not too often that you will get these in matches for that reason but when you do...sheesh.

Just another thing to add in Marth's list of edgeguarding tools. :3

ElementUser · May 5, 2015

Quickhero said:
I need to learn how the heck I can jump instantly to the right/left after a ledge-grab. I haven't been able to do it consistently at all and often times I just end up jumping upward. :\ Really need help so I can practice this.

After you ledge trump, move your Analog stick away from the stage (left or right, not any other direction) so that you start falling (and not fast-fall nor accidentally do a tap jump), and immediately issue a jump command after you start falling and immediately issue a D-Air.

You must issue the jump command after your character lets go of the ledge, or you'll do the jump recovery from the ledge (which is not what you want). I think there's also like a 20-frame delay before you can act right after you snap to the ledge, so there is that too. That is why you might accidentally/unintentionally do a jump ledge recovery if you try to move away from the ledge right away and do a jump immediately after you snap to the ledge, as the analog stick movement won't be registered in the input buffer window (but the jump command will). So you have to wait at least 10 frames after you snap to the ledge before you can buffer the analog stick movement input for it to work.

I tried it and ledge trumping is really hard for me, but I guess it's just a matter of muscle memory & practice after you ledge trump to be able to do it consistently.

Senshu · May 5, 2015

I've been playing with it for a few hours now, and though i'm pretty bad at trumping (I'll work on it) I've managed to land it on cpus, soon i'l try it on players. It's really nice and feels good. Nice find, and thanks for sharing!

Quickhero · May 5, 2015

Haha @

ElementUser I've been doing that for all my ledge trumps at the moment, it just doesn't look like that AT ALL in the gif so I got scared, but I can do this just fine now. Thanks!

fox67890 · May 5, 2015

Quickhero said:
I believe you have to do it RIGHT AFTER they grab the ledge, otherwise they jump off a bit too soon and you won't be able to score the d-air.

I agree with this. You get more frame advantage the sooner you grab a ledge after your opponent does. Doing it immediately seems vital in order to land this.

Kira~ · May 5, 2015

I know this is the wrong thread to ask, but can someone give me some advice on how to accurately ledge trump of a dash? I can only seem to do it off a short hop.

LoreLes · May 5, 2015

Kira~ said:
I know this is the wrong thread to ask, but can someone give me some advice on how to accurately ledge trump of a dash? I can only seem to do it off a short hop.

Basically just run off the stage, fast fall one frame, hit back on towards the ledge and autosnap.

Also this trump technique is quite dependent on when your opponent decides to snap to the ledge by recovery or jumps. As stated earlier this is only possible if you trump within a few frames of their autosnap.

Pugwest · May 9, 2015

I pulled it off yesterday vs Sonic. It's legit if you're fast enough.

Quickhero · May 9, 2015

Pugwest said:
I pulled it off yesterday vs Sonic. It's legit if you're fast enough.

Well, now I know why Sonic lost his "YOU'RE TOO SLOW" taunt.

http://imgur.com/ojVsRte
gotta go fast

Emblem Lord · May 9, 2015

fox67890 said:
Please let this be legit...

edit:
https://vine.co/v/OJtLE9rwmOU

!!!

Trump trap.

I thought this was common knowledge among the Marth community.

fox67890 · May 9, 2015

Emblem Lord said:
Trump trap.

I thought this was common knowledge among the Marth community.

Almost everyone already knows about the general trump trap. But as far as Marth's were concerned (unless I'm mistaken), after the ledge trump, the traditional followup was a guaranteed bair. The fact that you could get a guaranteed spike out of a successful trump on some characters I really don't believe was common knowledge. If it was, well, I guess I just didn't know. I personally haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else yet though.

Uh...if you're talking about the link I posted, then I'm surprised by it because it expands and takes the trump trap to a new level/possibility. Previously, if you wanted to tipper fsmash someone when they re-grabbed the ledge (from a ledge trump), it might not work because many characters could jump back on stage, or do something else to avoid the ledge and get back on stage. By foot-stooling someone after the trump though, you pretty much put them in a position where they almost have to regrab the ledge, so a tipper fsmash is much more likely.

Now I don't know if the footstool is guaranteed (although it looks like it might be), but I think mentioning it is necessary.

Admiral_Dante · Jun 22, 2015

Well, I could have used this earlier... I fight a lot of Ness'. And my friends sub gannon and rosa... Nevertheless, they're about to get dunked on.

Edit: Upon further review I find this tech most useful when you just miss gimping someone with up b toward the ledge. Just when they think they are safe you jump off and spike them dead. >=]

JANKX · Jun 24, 2015

Marth now confirmed for top tier?

Admiral_Dante · Jun 24, 2015

JANKX said:
Marth now confirmed for top tier?

When I play him, he's always top tier.

Marth's ledge trump to dair spike?

Smash Journeyman

Smash Rookie

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Apprentice

Smash Ace

Smash Cadet

Smash Cadet

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Cadet

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Ace

The Legendary Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Smash Apprentice

Information

Network