marth's dtilt

[knightpraetor]

so often (or not that often if you think about how well marth edge guards) i end up recovering to the ledgehog..i then have few options it seems...my bro's marth is always spaced at the proper range..and he likes to spam dtilt.

now rolling on pretty much never works past 100, though at earlier percentages i can someitmes get it to work..

so sometimes i end up just either standing up or managing to ledgehop on ( i dont like to ledgehop aerials at that range since fair or claw can get shielded at max range)

anyways standing up means getting either dtilted off..or if you're lucky you get to shield the dtilt.

Anyways, my question is what are bowser's options from this point and what do you like to use.

Questions:

1. Should i be able to short hop over a second predicted dtilt and fair before he gets his shield up? will he have time to interrupt the dtilt with an ftilt before i close the range? or will fair beat out the ftilt?

2. can i do a short wavedash between dtilts to close the range? sometimes i manage to get a wd to grab off, but more often then not i get shieldstabbed even if i manage to close the range and get my shield back up.

3. Finally, my biggest question: fortress confuses the heck out of me...the guide says it has an initial range as large as link's up+B...i don't see how that can be or how to apply it..does that only work for clanking hitboxes rather than hitting opponents?

anyways, can i fortress to cancel the dtilts and get closer? i keep trying this thinking it will work but it fails more often than not.

What determines whether the fortress clanks or the dtilt goes through it?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

you can sweetspot through his "stand on the stage" edgeguards and you can always do a nice quick airdodge style recovery if you are worried about things like garbage throw-> edgeguard stuff from marth

oh this was actually refering to the on stage stuff?

you can fortress tink it, or you can just plain sheild grab it haha

 

[knightpraetor]

k, shieldgrabbing the 2nd dtilt works then i guess...

to tink dtilt i have to do the fortress after the dtilt starts? it seems like if i do it early he just penetrates the fortress and hits me.

i think i have time most of the time to fair as well..not sure if he can shield..in that case just claw i guess...it really pisses me off though how i keep getting hit while trying to fortress tink his dtilt..i'm still not sure if it can just somehow go through because of its disjointed hit box...or whether he's hitting me before my fortress starts up entirely

 

[Gimpyfish62]

are you fortressing out of sheild? perhaps the problem is that you aren't actually up b-ing out of sheild, but you are letting go of your sheild completely.

another problem i could potentially see is if you are trying to fortress to APPROACH (which is ALWAYS a bad idea) and he is just dtilting you in the middle of it (or at least after the initial 5 frames)

 

[knightpraetor]

meh i should have read that guide more carefully..so basically i have to be within 5 frames of when he uses the dtilt if i don't want to get hit...the thing is dtilt is so fast when repeated that i can't react to it..so if i call it in advance and do a fortress and he waits a few frames he might hit me out of it..of course he isn't really doing that on reaction either i'm sure

anyways, this method and jumping over the dtilt to fair seem to be bowser's best options...

another thing that annoys me though is that mighty, stalwart fsmash of his...sigh

anywayas, even when i shield it...if it's tipped i think it inflicts too much shield stun...not to say i'm incapable..but unlike with some characters i seem to not always get the WD grab from shield to work..

like with m2 this seems to work everytime...but with bowser sometimes marth seems to have time to spotdodge..which annoys the hell out of me..i like to wd to ftilt if i think he's going to spotdodge...the extra time is just long enough to set up for it.

Anyways if you get some free time gimpy find out if marth can spotdodge your wd grab from shield. I'm wondering if maybe it's just my bad wavedashing skills with bowser:\

oh another question i had...i noticed that kevin m sometimes bairs people who tech behind them..and i haven't been doing that..i've always been dsmashing or regrabbing (regrab is tricky on the timing..i don't think you can react and do it very well...as opposed to WD to dsmash you can just react..making techchasing more efficient). Anyways i'm going to try to incorporate more bair tech chases since that can knock them off for edgeguarding.....though i dunno...dsmash to Upair is supremely satisfying if you pull it off.

one thing that worries me though is sometimes my brother has his shield up when the dsmash goes off...however, the dsmash just eats his shield and sends him up. BUt i was wondering if a good player might angle their shield to absorb the dsmash.

anyways, my current techchase game with bowser is dthrow. dash forward.. if they tech in place just react and grab them, if they don't tech i wait for a get up attack or roll then punish by wd regrab or just shielding and regrab...i think the hardest to follow is when they don't tech then roll after i get close to them and put up my shield..even if i wavedash out of shield it's challenging to regrab sometimes..however, if they overuse not teching then i start punishing with techchased aerials or dsmash.

if they tech behind i just WD back and dsmash..and if they tech forward...i just chase..though with marth it seems he can spotdodge/maybe roll afterwards..so it's more complex when they tech away...though again, this is done with reaction speed..if they start overusing teching away i'll just call it in advance and start running there immediately..making it easy to get the regrab or whatever.

anyways, tell me whether you think my techchasing method is ok or not. I'm mainly just worried as to whether the marth can shield the smash..am i just reacting too slow maybe?

 

[KevinM]

If they don't tech try punishing with the klaw once they get up, thats just my two cents.

 

[knightpraetor]

heh, it's sad that i never even thought to try that..it's just such a slow move but then i should have plenty of time to think of tossing it out if they roll after i was already next to them lying facedown..and i think claw grabs when they are facedown too so i can punish if i think they're going to not tech as well, even before they start to get up? dunno if it can outprioritize the get up attack of marth though...will test it out tomorrow

 

[KevinM]

The Klaw isn't actually that slow, the widedown is if you miss with the move but if you connect its fast, plus the grab eliminates any lag from the wind down so just look for that

The klaw is one of Bowser's best moves hands down.

 

[knightpraetor]

so bowser's best moves are? fortress, fair, claw, upair, bair?

and the klaw isn't necessarily slow but it's not as fast as a fair if i'm certain they dont have time to shield right?

the thing is marth rarely goes defensive on me..i force him to come to me, meaning that usually when i am attacking i'm trying to trade range with fair vs his sword..unless i'm sure he'll shield..but in general i try to avoid hitting his shield on the ground..my brother likes to try to bait me into hitting the claw at max range where it won't grab, and then he gets a free grab off on me

 

[5150]

so bowser's best moves are? fortress, fair, claw, upair, bair?

wrong.

it's fair, ftilt, upb. everything else is garbage and is used situationally.

 

[KevinM]

The Klaw isn't garbage 51, shows how little you know i guess

 

[Gimpyfish62]

alright further dtilt q's go in the ask gimpyfish thread

*bowser fsmash*