ok i am having real trouble against samus. as marth has no range samus kind of owns me. he just keeps his distance. sometimes he will do a sideb followed directly by fully charged b and its pretty annoying... all i can really do is try to go all out offensive... but marth's downb is probably his best move. (defensive...) help?
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marth vs samus?
- Thread starter IDK
- Start date
HiIH
Smash Lord
1.Swat the missiles. Just jab at them, every character can do it, but it's extremely easy with Link, Marth, and Roy.
2.Your range totally does own samus up close, you can either swat the missiles and make him approach, or you can swat the missiles as you approach, just watch out for a shot.
3.You can jump over a swarm of missile canceled missiles (similar to if a fox is just spamming lasers) by using your side B so you can land in between missiles.
Any other specific problems, other than approach, then I'm unsure on what you might need help with if you don't specify.
Also a Marth main might want to confirm if any of the stuff I've said is actually legitimate.
2.Your range totally does own samus up close, you can either swat the missiles and make him approach, or you can swat the missiles as you approach, just watch out for a shot.
3.You can jump over a swarm of missile canceled missiles (similar to if a fox is just spamming lasers) by using your side B so you can land in between missiles.
Any other specific problems, other than approach, then I'm unsure on what you might need help with if you don't specify.
Also a Marth main might want to confirm if any of the stuff I've said is actually legitimate.
Retroking2000
Smash Master
Unfortunatly, Samus is one of, heck im going to say THE best character in the game when it comes to recovering. Bombs, grapple beam, Recovery, her heaviness and air movement/floatiness makes her SOO hard to clear on alot of stages.
With bombs, its really hard to edgeguard Samus, esspecially with Marth, who has no projectile. Your best bet would be just to wait until your friend is done with all his fancy samus recovering and try and launch an attack when he's just getting back up onto the stage. Either that, or dtilt'ing is good for a Samus who likes to get back on the stage from underneath. Sometimes, just a shorthopped forward air can mess her up, if she's that high up.
Marth is at a little bit of a disadvantage against Samus, but popping her up in the air is your best bet, uptiliting and uair own Samus. Exploit her floatiness and your range in the air.
it is hard to fight her in the fashion Marth would tear anyone else to shreds. The most prominent aspect of this thesis is seen in Samus's playing style: Where Marth is most effectively played as a precise-hitting, sweet-spot exploiter, Samus is messy, mushy and ALL OVER THE PLACE. Her firey attacks (bombs...?), explosions, and huge span of range all help to rack up that damage %. The saddest thing is this is how I've seen all Samus players purposefully act, and it tears my heart to peices to lose in a flaming, smoldering state.
The wrong thing to do would be to fight Samus in the same way the Marth would fight anyone else. Of course, every other character requires some sort of slight alteration in approach, but still, treat Samus as an extreme. THE alteration I've found to make versus Samus is to play carefully--even more careful than you would be versus any other character. Her bombs, missiles, and Big Friggin' Gun are all moves that she can use to get in the way of your playing, and make room for an approach to grab or shoulder slam you. So, in light, beware.
Here are the things I consider most when playing Samus:
1. Play CAREFULLY: Being her messy self, your Samus-playing nemesis would love to see you screw up a silly wave-dash and be blown into oblivion. No fancy tricks unless you are SURE that the outcome will be what you expect.
2. COUNTERING: I'm sure you know this one, but sometimes people foget in the heat of a passionate battle. Marth's Counter does NOT reflect projectiles. When playing Samus, don't use it to fiend off nasty missles, bombs, and blasts. A simple tap on the L button will do for all the defense you need versus most of that stuff.
3. STAY OUT OF THE WAY: Samus, as I said, is messy and all over the stage. Don't ever blindly rush in to attack--be defensive! An orange pinball dropping bombs at a rate of more than two booms per second is NOT the best field of battle for Marth! When she blows her projectiles at you, jumping over them is a good tactic. Just wait for your chance to strike--it will come.
4. DODGING: Marth has an excellent dodging roll (L+Foward or Backward); when playing Samus (who, by the way, has the broadest shoulders in the game, as a female), don't be timid to roll away. This is one of those simpler tactics turned strategic--abuse, abuse, abuse! Considering Samus's slow Charge Shot, slow charging footspeed, slow-dropping bombs, and (well, actually painfully dangerous) missiles, there are always opprotunities to roll dodge. This is far less hazardous than trying to wave-dash through her projectiles or simply stay put and dodge (L+Down). Be careful, though.
5. AERIAL: Keep away from overdoing your aerial moves. Samus underneath is not something to see as an easy striking opportunity. You should know why. However, being in the air is a great place to parry Samus's lesser projectiles with the extensive reach of Marth's Foward+A and Backward+A slashes. Also, a shffl'd Foward+A, Neutral A, or Down+A are excellent ways to offensively attack. Don't become predictable, though.
That about sums up the problems that I've ever had playing Samus. As far as Edge-guarding goes, Samus has the best recovery in the game. Don't waste your breath worrying about finding some way to keep her off; finish her off slowly. That will have to be done to some character...might as well be Samus.
Sorry so long of a post. That's all I have for you.
With bombs, its really hard to edgeguard Samus, esspecially with Marth, who has no projectile. Your best bet would be just to wait until your friend is done with all his fancy samus recovering and try and launch an attack when he's just getting back up onto the stage. Either that, or dtilt'ing is good for a Samus who likes to get back on the stage from underneath. Sometimes, just a shorthopped forward air can mess her up, if she's that high up.
Marth is at a little bit of a disadvantage against Samus, but popping her up in the air is your best bet, uptiliting and uair own Samus. Exploit her floatiness and your range in the air.
it is hard to fight her in the fashion Marth would tear anyone else to shreds. The most prominent aspect of this thesis is seen in Samus's playing style: Where Marth is most effectively played as a precise-hitting, sweet-spot exploiter, Samus is messy, mushy and ALL OVER THE PLACE. Her firey attacks (bombs...?), explosions, and huge span of range all help to rack up that damage %. The saddest thing is this is how I've seen all Samus players purposefully act, and it tears my heart to peices to lose in a flaming, smoldering state.
The wrong thing to do would be to fight Samus in the same way the Marth would fight anyone else. Of course, every other character requires some sort of slight alteration in approach, but still, treat Samus as an extreme. THE alteration I've found to make versus Samus is to play carefully--even more careful than you would be versus any other character. Her bombs, missiles, and Big Friggin' Gun are all moves that she can use to get in the way of your playing, and make room for an approach to grab or shoulder slam you. So, in light, beware.
Here are the things I consider most when playing Samus:
1. Play CAREFULLY: Being her messy self, your Samus-playing nemesis would love to see you screw up a silly wave-dash and be blown into oblivion. No fancy tricks unless you are SURE that the outcome will be what you expect.
2. COUNTERING: I'm sure you know this one, but sometimes people foget in the heat of a passionate battle. Marth's Counter does NOT reflect projectiles. When playing Samus, don't use it to fiend off nasty missles, bombs, and blasts. A simple tap on the L button will do for all the defense you need versus most of that stuff.
3. STAY OUT OF THE WAY: Samus, as I said, is messy and all over the stage. Don't ever blindly rush in to attack--be defensive! An orange pinball dropping bombs at a rate of more than two booms per second is NOT the best field of battle for Marth! When she blows her projectiles at you, jumping over them is a good tactic. Just wait for your chance to strike--it will come.
4. DODGING: Marth has an excellent dodging roll (L+Foward or Backward); when playing Samus (who, by the way, has the broadest shoulders in the game, as a female), don't be timid to roll away. This is one of those simpler tactics turned strategic--abuse, abuse, abuse! Considering Samus's slow Charge Shot, slow charging footspeed, slow-dropping bombs, and (well, actually painfully dangerous) missiles, there are always opprotunities to roll dodge. This is far less hazardous than trying to wave-dash through her projectiles or simply stay put and dodge (L+Down). Be careful, though.
5. AERIAL: Keep away from overdoing your aerial moves. Samus underneath is not something to see as an easy striking opportunity. You should know why. However, being in the air is a great place to parry Samus's lesser projectiles with the extensive reach of Marth's Foward+A and Backward+A slashes. Also, a shffl'd Foward+A, Neutral A, or Down+A are excellent ways to offensively attack. Don't become predictable, though.
That about sums up the problems that I've ever had playing Samus. As far as Edge-guarding goes, Samus has the best recovery in the game. Don't waste your breath worrying about finding some way to keep her off; finish her off slowly. That will have to be done to some character...might as well be Samus.
Sorry so long of a post. That's all I have for you.
KyloWinter
Smash Ace
Dtilts can help push her back when crouch cancelling. Dair will also mess up her crouch cancel sometimes. To edgeguard, just stay on the stage. It's pointless going out there to edgeguard. And don't edgeguard with Fsmash when Samus is recovering above the stage, she will airdodge it everytime and recover safely. Use utilt to force her to airdodge then use the fsmash. If you grab her at low percents, immediately fthrow to fsmash - it will usually tip. Also, I find that nair works fairly well for some reason, probably because she is hard to combo with fairs.
I have a hard time seeing where marth has a difficult time fighting samus.
I think you posted something like that before ToS but I disagree >_<.
What does samus have over marth?
Not much probably missles and recovery thats about it. She has less range, her air game is worse, she practically cannot shield grab you and her ground game is reduced to like f-tilts and jabs.
Marth has no problem with samus this is one of samus's worst match ups possibly sheik being the worst matchup.
So vs Samus all you generally do is swat missles and space d-tilts, use grabs and f-air when the samus player is on their descent from trying to missile cancel.
When they get to higher percents like 70ish you could probably spam your f-air more on their shield since if they CC a spaced f-air they will probably fall.
If you grab a samus just f-throw her or d-throw her can chase with f-airs, grabs, or d-tilts.
And edgeguarding samus isn't THAT bad either. Yes she has fantastic recovery but its fairly predictable.
There are generally three cases when samus recovers
1) Samus is going to recover from above. In this case a samus player will probably try to either
Fall with an aerial (Usually n-air)
Try to create a situation where samus's bombs can block your approach
grapple cancel
In any case samus will be above you so you might want to be careful if your planning to use f-airs or n-airs. Up-tilts aren't too bad though if you can trap them so they are nearly directly above you, I would up-tilt, that way the only way they can get out of the situation is air dodge where you can just short hop n-air. F-air works too just be careful not to get hit.
2) Samus is going to recover from below using her up-b
Not much to do really except just f-smash or d-tilt. If you try to chase off for a f-air to kill her you will probably just get hit by her up-b so don't try it >_>.
3) Samus is going to recover from below using her grapple
This is probably the only time I would ever go off the stage vs a samus even though I tend to do it a lot. Generally if you see a samus air dodge you could easily run off and double jump f-air her. That way she loses her grapple and you just edgehog her. Its not that hard to do it takes a little bit of experience knowing when they are going to use their grapple.
A lot of times though I like to go off the stage and swat their bomb's with f-air. Since its generally difficult to hit a samus just go for their bombs and up-b.
If they have a double jump they are going to use it and immediately grapple or up-b if they are close enough.
If they up-b edgehog them fairly simple.
If they grapple fast fall of the ledge and double jump b-air and up -b and then edgehog.
Its not a bad match up for you it just takes a little experience because she is such an awkward character to fight against just stay patient and hit her when she is vulnerable.
I think you posted something like that before ToS but I disagree >_<.
What does samus have over marth?
Not much probably missles and recovery thats about it. She has less range, her air game is worse, she practically cannot shield grab you and her ground game is reduced to like f-tilts and jabs.
Marth has no problem with samus this is one of samus's worst match ups possibly sheik being the worst matchup.
So vs Samus all you generally do is swat missles and space d-tilts, use grabs and f-air when the samus player is on their descent from trying to missile cancel.
When they get to higher percents like 70ish you could probably spam your f-air more on their shield since if they CC a spaced f-air they will probably fall.
If you grab a samus just f-throw her or d-throw her can chase with f-airs, grabs, or d-tilts.
And edgeguarding samus isn't THAT bad either. Yes she has fantastic recovery but its fairly predictable.
There are generally three cases when samus recovers
1) Samus is going to recover from above. In this case a samus player will probably try to either
Fall with an aerial (Usually n-air)
Try to create a situation where samus's bombs can block your approach
grapple cancel
In any case samus will be above you so you might want to be careful if your planning to use f-airs or n-airs. Up-tilts aren't too bad though if you can trap them so they are nearly directly above you, I would up-tilt, that way the only way they can get out of the situation is air dodge where you can just short hop n-air. F-air works too just be careful not to get hit.
2) Samus is going to recover from below using her up-b
Not much to do really except just f-smash or d-tilt. If you try to chase off for a f-air to kill her you will probably just get hit by her up-b so don't try it >_>.
3) Samus is going to recover from below using her grapple
This is probably the only time I would ever go off the stage vs a samus even though I tend to do it a lot. Generally if you see a samus air dodge you could easily run off and double jump f-air her. That way she loses her grapple and you just edgehog her. Its not that hard to do it takes a little bit of experience knowing when they are going to use their grapple.
A lot of times though I like to go off the stage and swat their bomb's with f-air. Since its generally difficult to hit a samus just go for their bombs and up-b.
If they have a double jump they are going to use it and immediately grapple or up-b if they are close enough.
If they up-b edgehog them fairly simple.
If they grapple fast fall of the ledge and double jump b-air and up -b and then edgehog.
Its not a bad match up for you it just takes a little experience because she is such an awkward character to fight against just stay patient and hit her when she is vulnerable.