ridemyboat
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2015
- Messages
- 152
Yesterday a puff beat me in bracket, so I'm trying to understand how I should think about this matchup against mid-level puffs. These are my thoughts so far.
I think stage space is really important for Puff, but she still has OK ledge options if she's willing to camp. Marth can go for a read, but doesn't have any safe options for forcing Puff off the ledge. He can punish Puff after she gets back on by outspacing whatever she commits to. Puffs goal is to take center stage because stage space is way more valuable for Marth, and has to camp at the ledge to mask when they're going to go for it.
It's kind of annoying because while I want Puff to get off the ledge, I also need to keep her on the ledge because her options aren't as good as they are in center stage. Retreating fairs are good at the time she wants to move into center stage. She can beat retreating fair by landing outside of retreating fair range, and then can play ground game or move in. Coming off the ledge, she needs to use multiple jumps to get bair at a good height and to turn around. If Puff turns around then she's probably going to bair you, so if they bair you while they're at the ledge then they'll only have three jumps left. So it's a lot more likely that they'll try to land on the stage with a fair or nothing if you give her enough room.
Utilt rest is strong. You can beat it by shield grabbing before the rest. I'm not sure what spacings they can still go for the utilt if they're facing toward you. Depending on their spacing they can also go for grab, so you can't just shield every time. It seems Puff's really like to start off with utilt rest on FD, so you should run up and shield on FD if they have a port that puts them close to you. I'm not sure if it's that common but the last two Puffs have only done that on FD.
The mixups aren't in Marth's favor at close range. He has to choose between shield, retreating rising fair, roll, wavedash out of shield, and grab. If Puff is consistently pushing you to the ledge then you're messing up in neutral. You could be dash dancing away too much, or rolling or doing retreating fairs too much. If you're playing neutral better than your opponent, then Puff is pushed to the ledge. So the hardest part of this matchup is teaching yourself to be happy when they're ledge stalling against you.
While Puff is in the air, I really think you need to split your decision making process into 1) Is she facing toward you? 2) Is she in the air? 3) If she's in the air, does she want to be at dash height, standing height, or above you? I think there is probably more nuance to this, like whether she's above you at a range that can be threatened by retreating fair, neutral rising fair or approaching fair, and then whether she is going for retreating bairs.
At mid percent you can mix up dash dance, side b utilt/fsmash, and rising fair. I need to learn kill percents for the side b punishes.
I'm going to come back to this post either tomorrow or the next day. I'm honestly still struggling with enjoying Puff being on the ledge.
I think stage space is really important for Puff, but she still has OK ledge options if she's willing to camp. Marth can go for a read, but doesn't have any safe options for forcing Puff off the ledge. He can punish Puff after she gets back on by outspacing whatever she commits to. Puffs goal is to take center stage because stage space is way more valuable for Marth, and has to camp at the ledge to mask when they're going to go for it.
It's kind of annoying because while I want Puff to get off the ledge, I also need to keep her on the ledge because her options aren't as good as they are in center stage. Retreating fairs are good at the time she wants to move into center stage. She can beat retreating fair by landing outside of retreating fair range, and then can play ground game or move in. Coming off the ledge, she needs to use multiple jumps to get bair at a good height and to turn around. If Puff turns around then she's probably going to bair you, so if they bair you while they're at the ledge then they'll only have three jumps left. So it's a lot more likely that they'll try to land on the stage with a fair or nothing if you give her enough room.
Utilt rest is strong. You can beat it by shield grabbing before the rest. I'm not sure what spacings they can still go for the utilt if they're facing toward you. Depending on their spacing they can also go for grab, so you can't just shield every time. It seems Puff's really like to start off with utilt rest on FD, so you should run up and shield on FD if they have a port that puts them close to you. I'm not sure if it's that common but the last two Puffs have only done that on FD.
The mixups aren't in Marth's favor at close range. He has to choose between shield, retreating rising fair, roll, wavedash out of shield, and grab. If Puff is consistently pushing you to the ledge then you're messing up in neutral. You could be dash dancing away too much, or rolling or doing retreating fairs too much. If you're playing neutral better than your opponent, then Puff is pushed to the ledge. So the hardest part of this matchup is teaching yourself to be happy when they're ledge stalling against you.
While Puff is in the air, I really think you need to split your decision making process into 1) Is she facing toward you? 2) Is she in the air? 3) If she's in the air, does she want to be at dash height, standing height, or above you? I think there is probably more nuance to this, like whether she's above you at a range that can be threatened by retreating fair, neutral rising fair or approaching fair, and then whether she is going for retreating bairs.
At mid percent you can mix up dash dance, side b utilt/fsmash, and rising fair. I need to learn kill percents for the side b punishes.
I'm going to come back to this post either tomorrow or the next day. I'm honestly still struggling with enjoying Puff being on the ledge.
