Marth Vs. Pit. Marths worst matchup?

[AlbobDS]

I've been playing Marth for a few months now, and I have to say this matchup has given me the most trouble out of almost all matchups i've played. I think in melee his worst matchup was possibly sheik, but in PM Marth Sheik is possibly the most even matchup in the game. But anyways, onto opening up this matchup.

The Reason I think this is marths worst match up is for a few reasons.

1. Pits Gimping Potential ~
   
   Its annoying how hard Pit can gimp Marth with arrows. To play this match up you have to be extremely careful off the stage because of arrows, and the fact that pits recovery is just straight better than Marths in so many ways. Marth's Side+B stall makes it easier for Pit to hit him with arrows. This isn't like a G&W bucket stall or a Mario Cape stall where projectiles don't mean ****, Marths stall leaves him very vulnerable to projectiles, and when you have Rapid fire pit arrows coming at you, theres not much you can do except try to maneuver around them with side+b, which is really hard after the first side+b. After that, your only option is to jump and hope you can sweet spot the ledge.
   
   
2. Pits Down throw -
   
   Pits down throw on Marth is probably the most annoying part of this match up. If you're at around 100%, expect to get down thrown, and either up+b'd or up+smashed, and don't be suprised when you get star KO'd. Marth is at a damn near perfect weight and fall speed for Pit to kill him really early on with his amazing off the top KO power.
   
   
3. Pits Recovery -
   
   Pits recovery is extremely hard for Marth to gimp if not played almost perfectly. While yes, the Ken Combo is still an option to kill Pit, as it is with just about everyone, its really hard for Marth to straight gimp pit out side of that. He has multiple jumps, side+b to fly back on to the stage from far away, and an up+b which is farther than one of his jumps and can kill Marth pretty easily.

IMO, all the reasons stated above make this one of Marth's worst matchups. If there are worse match ups for Marth, i'd like to hear it so that I don't spend more time than I need too on this one. Its by all accounts, completely un-enjoyable to play haha.

 

[InfinityCollision]

45:55 imo, not his worst matchup by any means. Mewtwo has the potential to be the ugliest of the listed matchups, though it's not as bad as you'd think against most Mewtwos.

And the Sheik matchup is by no means even, but I'm getting tired of explaining why PM Sheik doesn't suck.

 

[menotyou135]

Sheik or mewtwo. Diddy is rough too, but idk if it is a negative matchup or not. Spamus can be hard too but I don't think it is a negative matchup.

 

[AlbobDS]

45:55 imo, not his worst matchup by any means. Mewtwo has the potential to be the ugliest of the listed matchups, though it's not as bad as you'd think against most Mewtwos.

And the Sheik matchup is by no means even, but I'm getting tired of explaining why PM Sheik doesn't suck.

I don't think that Sheik is bad in this game. The way I see it, Sheik has to be played defensively now in PM, because she lacks the ability to play super aggressive now (no chain grab, no dacus). So basically the match up is who can bait who out first, and both characters are amazing at it. It gets super frustrating after a little bit tho, for sure.

 

[InfinityCollision]

She traded a limited chaingrab (on Marth anyway) for a 50/50 shot at guaranteed followups at any reasonable % out of bthrow/dthrow mixup. That's not to say she can't potentially follow up if you DI for the correct throw too, depending on %. DACUS wasn't a thing in Melee. I'm not seeing how this translates to Sheik playing more defensively than in Melee, especially once you factor in things like RAR bair, her ledge game being even better than in Melee, etc.

 

[AlbobDS]

She traded a limited chaingrab (on Marth anyway) for a 50/50 shot at guaranteed followups at any reasonable % out of bthrow/dthrow mixup. That's not to say she can't potentially follow up if you DI for the correct throw too, depending on %. DACUS wasn't a thing in Melee. I'm not seeing how this translates to Sheik playing more defensively than in Melee, especially once you factor in things like RAR bair, her ledge game being even better than in Melee, etc.

For some reason I remember DACUS being a thing in melee., iunno why. But i've always just seen more success from defensive sheiks than offensive ones, so i've kind of assumed she was a bit more defensive in this game.

 

[Gladiator]

For sure, I think that pit is NOT marth's worst matchup. Actually, I think that it is about 55:45 in Marth's favor just because of a lot of simple things. Marth's back throw can lead to a whhole bunch of options, and forward throw can chain grab on many percents. Plus, Pit is the perfect weight for f-air and u-air combos. I also think that marth actually has some decent options to edgeguard pit, with downtilt being his best one. Normally, after a few d-tilts, Pits will try to recover high, but you can just block that off with a f-air or even d-air with some practice. Just my opinion, though.

 

[InfinityCollision]

For some reason I remember DACUS being a thing in melee., iunno why. But i've always just seen more success from defensive sheiks than offensive ones, so i've kind of assumed she was a bit more defensive in this game.

She was relatively defensive character in Melee too. Bait and punish is kind of her thing, she doesn't have the tools to be truly aggro.

 

[Angrycuban]

i actually think marth can beat diddy honestly. Its at least even

 

[SSBM_Sora]

Ive played with both Emukiller and Zero at guts 3 consistently and i can honestly say the pit match up isnt as bad as it sounds. I was able to take games off. Just got to be careful with the conversion of the arrow - to - kill - move when at high percentage and DI his combos correctly As for mewtwo. PFFT I got bopped.

 

[Deleted member]

personally i think marths worst match so far is samus, she has a lot in common with mewtwo but is much better at trading hits and winning out on them than mewtwo is. most of mewtwo's bull**** is dealt with by waiting out and not forfeiting margin, which is still hard but not as bad as samus

 

[Taytertot]

As a roy main Im worried that the roy marth MU is pretty definitively in marths favor so im curious what characters would be a good counter to marth. It seems like M2 is the consensus but I'd like to know what if M2 is recommended as a secondary in order to counter marth or if there might be a better secondary to choose for this MU or even if roy doesnt have it as bad as I think?

 

[Vandire]

I gotta go with Mewtwo. Literally the hardest matchup I've ever had to go against as far as playing Marth.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Mewtwo is a hell of a lot easier to deal with now.

 

[Vandire]

Mewtwo is a hell of a lot easier to deal with now.

Haven't tried the matchup in 3.5 yet, but ill make sure to try this week.

 

[Baky]

Diddy is a free edgeguard now. You should be ashamed of yourselves as a marth main if you miss an edgeguard on diddy.

The only excuse is if he's able to recover at an angle that allows him to ledge cancel. Anything other than that should be free.

 

[xNaught]

Pit's normal game is easily worse than Marth's. He has much shorter range, but the key to overpowering him would probably be to properly respond to his different ways of getting in.

He could side-b, which is pretty quick if you're not thinking about it. Either shield grab his aerial if it doesn't cross-up or wavedash back and punish. He could hop at you with arrows, but this is something Marth players should have trained for by playing against Falco.

Pit can be poked at with d-tilt, and approaching with f-air is safe enough. If you can score a grab, you're golden.

 

[robosteven]

I'm glad this thread happened because I'm really struggling with the Marth matchup but didn't want to make a separate thread about it.

I have a decent Olimar, DK, Fox, Marth, and Ganondorf. I hate Marth dittos and don't think going Fox would work for me at all.

so basically my question is: Which is the hardest MU for Marth? Olimar, DK, or Ganondorf?

General tips for fighting this character would be appreciated too.