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Marth Vs Link

who do you think has the edge in the Marth Vs Link matchup?


  • Total voters
    57

Braverman

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
17
Location
coral springs florida
Ok so I have been playing project m and melee competitively for around 4-5 months and I’ve gotten 1/2 decent at it. Marth is my main and I’ve got some of the more complicated Marth stuff down through practice, this website and Youtube vids. However, this is one thing I simply cannot get over. My friend does not play this game seriously (no wavedashes, no wavelands, no l-cancles, etc) and he plays Link. My problem is that link can just space me out with boomerang and the newly buffed arrow until I take too much damage. I try to powershield as many arrows and boomerangs as I can, but it is impossible to get them all. Or he will shield grab me if I try to fair him. This happens even if my spacing is right on the money. I can’t use my dash dance because of arrows and boomerangs and bombs. And it seems like any approach I do just gets punished by links grab. So I guess the question is 2 fold.
1. Am I doing something wrong? If so what?

2. Is the matchup even? This is my first post so i hope it is relevant. :marth: VS :link2:
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
Oh, man, this is a tough one. If we're talking straight-up character versus character, I'm going to have to give it to Link.

While Marth possesses the fluidity, speed, and technical potential that separate himself and Link on most tier lists, Link simply has more defensive and approaching options at his disposal. He can use bombs to dole out heavy damage from afar, use his arrows to keep Marth off of the stage (whose recovery happens to be mostly horizontal in the form of his forward special slashes), and use the ever-useful Boomerang to approach, pressure, and combo.

This is where the matchup gets really tricky for me to decide. Marth and Link have very comparable ranges between Falchion and the Master Sword, but Link simply hits harder in most cases. This comes with higher end lag on most of his moves, however. Marth, on the other hand, can hit faster, but can only really match Link in straight up force when spaced properly; something which is difficult for a player who plays Marth for the very first time to do (I would assume).

Link's grab, in the form of the Clawshot, is an incredible tool in terms of grabbing reach, and aerial combo potential. It deals a nice amount of damage in the air, aids in Link's otherwise-poor recovery (with the help of the Bomb Jump, as well), and is an excellent option out of shield. Marth, while having an incredible reach for his grab, cannot use it as a recovery, or a ranged aerial attack like Link can. Though, if Link misses with the Clawshot, he can be punished very easily.

You know, I actually can't decide on this one. Once Marth closes in, it seems to be his game. Link's vast array of tools are very difficult to use up close; bombs take too long to ready and throw, and can end up hurting Link as well. The bow suffers from a long charge and startup, and the Boomerang, well, it's still relatively handy. Link's main advantage up close with Marth, is that Link doesn't require any advanced spacing to deal the kind of damage he does. I would like to think that even though I can combo relatively well with Link, that a Marth player who knows how to utilize his full potential would walk all over me, even with Link's distinct ranged advantage.

In terms of pure technical ability, I'd give it to Marth. A player who knows what they're doing with him would probably be able to outmaneuver a Link player, even at a higher level like Hylain's. Though, at the same time, a skilled Link can zone with the Boomerang, and give Marth a Hell of a time trying to close in.

I really can't choose.
 

lami

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Messages
204
Yeah, this really is a tough nut to crack. Marth has this amazing spacing game but runs into trouble with Link's wide array of projectiles and his grab. I voted it 50/50, however, it was a very unsure vote. I feel as though Marth is at a slight disadvantage, however, Marth is Marth. I'm gonna stick with the 50/50 and say keep practicing the matchup. Best of luck to ya, Braverman.
 

CyberZixx

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
1,189
I feel like that this match up like many of Marth's PM match ups while still 50/50 ish give Marth trouble as Link can keep him out well and can convert stray boomerang hits into solid combos.
 

7dogguy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Messages
61
Location
WV
3DS FC
2466-2487-7066
They buffed Link a lot in this. If this was a melee match up Marth would cream Link but all his projectiles have just enough knockback and speed to keep any Marth player uncomfortable. Marth V.S. Link is what I play the most in Project M because It still baffles me how good Link is. While I can easily 4 Stock the computer on level 9 ,give it to anyone who plays link and sees the upgrades to the character and you are in for one hell of a match. Links grab is so long sometimes that it's not even connected to his Clawshot. That makes a lot of tech skill pointless if you don't know what you are doing. My only advice to you is you have to be completely on point with all your skills, there is ABSOLUTELY no room for error. Try to keep link in the air watch out for his down A and also if you are off the ledge watch out for Links Up B it will spike you are at low percents. I died at 13% because I jumped right into it and you will need as much stocks as you can keep fighting him. Also Link can whip out his neutral air faster than well yeah... so watch out for that!
 

JesseMcCloud

AKA Zessei, Herald of Fate
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
1,593
Location
The Eternal Void
NNID
JesseMcCloud
3DS FC
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As has been already said, Link is a MONSTER on the defensive, and when he goes on the offense, he hits like a train.
That being said, Marth has a higher skill ceiling, and a masterful Marth-player wil be able to predict Link's moves more often than not. I would say this matchup is 55/45 or MAYBE, with a favorable stage for Marth, 60/40, Marth-favored.
But it is one of Marth's worst MUs.
 

Nausicaa

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
1,485
Location
Here
Yeah, Link!

Marth's in general seem to neglect F-Smash a lot out of raw-neutral.
Like... it's not a high-% kill move, it does just as much at mid-%, and a tipper out of raw neutral, or even the threat of it by throwing a couple out through-out a match, is both safe, seriously rewarding if connected, and establishes at least a conscious ever for opponents to shield in raw-neutrals outside of using it as bait, in genuine safe-purposes instead. Great for Marth.
It's a good move.
But sadface at the lack of it. Even in top-level Melee play, it does wonders when it IS used, and is seemingly never looked at again. Even then, it's tougher given the fast character who can punish it so much easier and isn't as rewarding for Marth to land. Try F-Smash more in PM against the slower cast, or the characters flopping around in under-developed meta-games, and the amount people are jumping to their death will translate to it happening vs Marth.
Link trying to throw anything/maneuver at all, is a good example of how to shut someone down with a RNG F-Smash out of raw-neutral.
 

Braverman

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
17
Location
coral springs florida
I've been playing a lot recently and what people say about being in the air is 100% true. i find the best way to play this is to stay on the ground and only go into the air when you hit link with a dash attack or up tilt. just staying on the ground and playing patiently is the way 2 go. no random f airs or n airs. this is just the way i learned to play against it. i now find it almost even with maybe a slight advantage to link but not enough to john about. its an annoying match-up not a difficult one in my (more developed) opinion.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
this MU feels dead even to me as a marth player. marth is worse defensively than link but better offensively so it kinda balances out. link is definitely NOT one of marth's worst MUs though.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Link's recovery is the main improvement in this MU and brings it back a lot closer to even than Melee. Smart usage of tether/airdodge into tether makes cheesy edgeguarding much harder. Onstage it's pretty even, although please Link players don't be predictable with projectile usage. Many players tend to choose between a pattern or two, and will do projectile "followups" regardless of what the other guy does. Like boomerang into bomb toss. It doesn't matter where my positioning is, whether I got hit, whether I am shielding dodging or running at you. I see this kind of stuff a LOT and it's not healthy vs smarter players or vs people who are better at PSing. This is especially something to address when playing against faster rushdown characters and people with good DD. This public service announcement is concluded


Also, whoever said this was one of Marth's hardest MU's is very incorrect imo
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
I just end up doing a few empty bomb drops onto flat space to punish an f-smash or neutral-b happy Marth player. With Marth's huge reach, he's likely to just hit the things and blow himself up, which means leaving them on platforms above yourself gives you a nice little tent with which to approach with. At least, that's what I've found. And, of course, spin attack as a finisher could mean an easily-dead Marth.
 

5-oNe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Messages
197
Location
Oak Park, IL
with 3.0 link got a lot better with this matchup just from the fact he doesnt have his boomerang grab animation anymore.i would have to say this is about 60-40 in links favor.especially since link doesnt have to approach. but the only way i have been able to do fine at this matchup is just from staying on the ground.dash dancing/wavedashing. and getting in with dtilts and grabs. and u have to convert on your grabs and tech chases. and he lives forever so u have to kill him fairly quickly because once his damage is higher he becomes unbelievably difficult to kill.
 

Bukowski On Ice

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
42
Location
San Francisco, CA
After playing this MU many times, I feel like it's even. Link has a LOT of options vs Marth but Marth can kill Link easily when converting grabs and also when ledge guarding. Link's sword length is comparable to Marths, but as stated before Marth is much faster (except Link's Dash atk is stupid good). The challenge is getting through Link's Mid range and then avoiding his strong sword attacks that keep Marth in mid range, where Marth is useless. But converting grabs into tech chases and getting Link off stage is where Marth shines. Almost every Link uses get up atk when recovering to push Marth back to mid range, and if they're smart you can just wait for the Link's get up option and punish with a grab/throw off stage. And DONT FORGET TO COUNTER HIS UP B. It's such a useful tool to get Links to try and space their up-b for a sweet spot, which makes ledge hogging a lot easier to achieve as Marth.
 

"Shion"

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
570
Location
Le Cooch
NNID
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I had a lot of trouble a few weeks back with some pretty good Link players, and I found that any stage with a platform is Marth's best friend.

Obviously the Link player is going to try to rack up damage with projectiles, so all Marth has to do is run around the platforms, shield te boomerang to cancel it and avoid the bombs.

Eventually, someone going to make the wrong move and Link's attacks leave him pretty vulnerable, which = opening for Marth chain grab to Utilt to combo. Profit.
 

Justkallmekai

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 21, 2013
Messages
194
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Fontana,California
NNID
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Really people have a hard time with the Marth vs Link MU? I don't know about you guys but I destroy Link with my Marth, maybe I haven't played enough Links' to see if it is a problem for Marth.
 

Koga_

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
43
Location
Memphis
I swear if link didn't have that boomerang........r.i.p.

Edit:(Good links). Good links can give good Marths serious work
 
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Koga_

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
43
Location
Memphis
You forgot about his z-air. And laying out bombs. And DACUS. And Link.
Dem arrows though......hit like nfl linemen lol. But the boomerang is his biggest help in this MU. It hit confirms and comes out faster
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
'Rang is pretty much the pillar of any Link MU at the moment, and I don't think it'll change anytime soon. The matchup, in my opinion, is mostly stage dependent. Yoshi's Story? Marth has it. Lylat? Link's game. Wario Ware? Link can get ****ed. Final Destination? Marth has nowhere to run.

That's my experience with it, anyway.
 

Koga_

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
43
Location
Memphis
Also ran into a hit confirming bomb>>rang>>dair link. And the L canceling made it even nastier since I barely could punish the guy when he would whiff dair after fishing for hit confirms
 

LOGIA666

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
158
Location
Impel Down
Also ran into a hit confirming bomb>>rang>>dair link. And the L canceling made it even nastier since I barely could punish the guy when he would whiff dair after fishing for hit confirms
That sounds crazy. I'm trying a few interesting techs with Link myself. I wish I could be even remotely as good with Marth as I am with Link.
My biggest problem with Marth is short hopping with him. It's so much easier with Roy followed by that godlike Nair.
 

Braverman

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
17
Location
coral springs florida
As a Marth main who has been playing the character competitively for about a year now looking back on this post is fun. from what i have seen not only from my play but looking at good link mains in PM it still feels like link has this one. the argument that link is combo food is not really a great counterpoint. an example of this is shiek vs captain falcon in melee, sheik is a great weight for falcons combos yet falcon has a very hard matchup against that character. in this instance link has all the tools to keep marth out and assuming marth does get in link has the defensive options to get marth out. not to mention link still combos marth with ease. in my opinion if the link is playing properly marth should not be able to get in. and if you have ever played this matchup as marth you know the frustration of dashing around despretly attempting to dodge projectiles while link can hop around and throw projectiles like they are going out of style. my advice to marth would be play patiently and try to predict where the boomerang is going to be thrown. and if you get in, make it a kill.
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
My advice for Marth's; SHFFL more n-airs, and stay low to the ground. Marth does great work from the air, but Link can cover too much space up there with his variety of projectiles. The lower to the ground you can stay, the better off you are. Block out projectiles with your aerials, and perfect shield more. Reflected projectiles will glance off of Link's Hylian Shield a lot, but at least you won't get hit.

Another thing that hurts me in this matchup is when Marth starts to get Counter-happy. Definitely helps Marth against close-range boomerangs.
 
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Taeo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Messages
4
I had my first encounter with a decent Link tonight. It really feels one sided most of the time as Link rains projectiles down like crazy. He can just wait for one to connect and come in swinging. His swings hurt pretty bad and have nearly as much range as Marth.

I did feel that, on the rare occasion I was able to approach and get Link up in the air he became absolute combo fodder at low percents. At high percents it gets a bit rougher because, as Braverman pointed out, you CANNOT beat his dair.
 

CyberZixx

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
1,189
I don't like the sound of SHFFL nairs in that match up. So much of Marth is exposed during that move is seem like your would be asking to be hit with a rang. Fair is the better swating move.
 

NoLife

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
161
Location
Ortonville MI
ive played a good link and a decent toon link (not hylian good but a threat non the less) and ur best position is close to him, however that isnt always the easiest thing to do. my advice is to use platforms, powershield, BAIT BOOMERANGS, by this i mean make him throw his boomerang MU is so much easier if u "throw the boomerang" i cant explain how but it is just trust me (this and platforms work well), and stay on the ground unless he is in the air BUT if he is diagonal to u in the air and u are on the ground bait a down air....works everytime especially if u r at high percent even if he lcancels it as long as u are expecting it u should b able to punish it. other than that dont dash dance unless ur good at powershielding (i would say at least 2 or 3 in a match considering how many he projectiles he throws) instead us wavedashing and wavelanding. swat the boomerangs with jab if u can but thats risky if there isnt a whole lot of space between u and link. as long as u can get in and hit with ur combos and kill/punish effectively marth wins 70/30 if not id say its even and the win is based not so much on the characters but how good/experienced the player is....hope this was helpful
 

Epoodle

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
3
Hello, the year is 2020 right now(hi from the past ig whoever sees this message) and I just got bodied by my friend Toffee, he's a green Link from Toronto/Ontario (idk but one of those 2). Basically, I feel that Marth must get in versus Link to get hits. Yes, Link does have projectiles but you could jab the rang, dash back and lose a little bit of stage control, just take the hit and lose only a little bit of stage control,dtilt or jab. To my knowledge those are my options against the rang. The projectiles in my opinion are the keys that makes Link so/somewhat difficult for Marths in this MU. Toffee once told me that Link goes to toptier once he gets his bomb. Personally idk how to stop the bomb but what i try to do is sh fair. I do try to shield the bombs but Link can just catch them again with Z(or A) then throw it towards you due to the bomb bouncing off the shield. I know this isn't explaining how to win the MU as Marth but its mostly me just stating how my situation with the Mu is as of right now. Back to the topic, Link's bombs are very scary and you should try to space dtilt and try to use spaced jab to attack Link, it might seem weird to use single hit jab (jab as in single hit or double if u wanna experiment(i havent tried double jabbing or more yet)). One thing Toffee does to me is spotdodge my grabs bc he has a good read of when Marths can get really thirsty for a grab(all ,arth mains get thirsty) but I suggest to minimize your grabs and tech chase with dthrow or fthrow. If at high precents and u get a grab try to throw them downwards and space dtilt(thats not the smartest option but thats what I do and it sometimes works) to get them offstage. For Link's grabs try to dashback or if u can read it like a mastermind(adapting) then just spotdodge it. One key thing that Toffee just recommended for Marth mains is to sh double fair (use the A button not c for the first jab bc using a is quicker than cstick trust me). Im sorry for changing the topic 5million times in this post but its one of my first :). I will come back and talk about what ive learned in (hopefiully) a proper matter with this MU. Add me on discord if u ever wanna play(i do melee mostly and im from EC) Epoodle#4026
 
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