Hi guys my name is trix, and I am an up and coming marth, and am a top 5 marth main in chicago. I highly doubt you know me unless your from illinois though. I just wanted to make a comprehensive list of marth tech thats isn't too well known(mostly because of its difficulty) but I think is extremely useful.
1. Doing a reverse up b on fox when he's in the start up of his Firefox. This one is kinda well known, but I thought I should put it on here anyways. Basically what you have to do is space it so that you're slightly above and slightly to the side of fox(this is actually really hard, you have to use the up bs max range.) The best way to practice this is to put a fox on handicap 7, yourself on 9, then just down throw him off at 0 percent. You can also get him in the last ten frames of his recovery, when he doesn't have any flames.
2. This one is significantly less known, and even harder than the 1st one. Dairing a fox in his initial start up, and trading with the flames. This is very useful after you jab a fox that side bs straight at you(in this situation jab is literally your only option, because nothing else is fast enough for you to react in time) and is also useful after you use jab to edgeguard in any situations. The problem after you jab someone is that they're too close to the stage for you to reverse up b them(if they up b immediately out of the jab, which foxs will do everytime because it makes the edgeguard significantly harder), and any other options is flawed. If you counter, fsmash, d-tilt, or neutral b, they can sweet spot it and these won't hit(and they will basically get on the stage for free while your still in your lag, and if you fsmash or counter you'll get punished really hard.) if you use an aerial such as fair to reach below the stage they can tech wall jump it. Dair is the only option that will get you the edgeguard against a really good fox, because they can't do anything to stop it and will die 100% of the time if you do it correctly because they can't sweetspot if they don't even start moving, they can't tech it, and it will kill them at 0%. It also useful for going really deep, because you get hit up by trading with up b frames, get to jump and then up b, making it possible to recover from literally anywhere fox can go. To practice it, just down throw a fox off at 0%, then jab him, then go down and try to trade with a dair. (Please note that foxs fire fox flames are every other frame between 20-32, and his up b start up lasts 42 frames.
3. This is very well known but I'll put it here anyways. You NEED to be able to pivot grab, because it is a basic necessity for comboing spacies, and is a very good option out of neutral. To practice this you just have to grind it out, no way around it.
4. Pivot fsmash is sadly only something pewpewu can do consinsently, although I think every marth should be doing it. It is very good in neutral because it gives you significantly more options out of dash dance, it is super good against peach, being garunteed off an f-throw from around 50-90%. It also good against marth and puff, because you can pivot tipper them off a throw by mixing up f-throw and b-throw. Also it is INSANELY good for tech chasing. It is one of Marths most reliable kill setups. Against fox, falco, falcon, and sheik, all you have to do is get a grab at 80+%, and then f-throw tech chase pivot tipper(which is easier than tech chasing with grab because it has more range) and its instant death. At around 40%+ it'll set up for an edgeguard. Marth has lots of trouble koing at higher percent because he can't do anything out of a grab and from 80-130% against most characters can really only throw out an fsmash in neutral to get them off stage. That's why people don't think marth is as good as fox and falco, and if every marth could do this, marth would become even better than fox in my opinion because he would have even more reliable kill setups. Pivot tipper is basically foxs upthrow upair, it works on every character in top 8(against puff peach and marth you do it right out of a grab, and against sheik spacies and falcon you tech chase). However it kills even quicker then upthrow upair and can't be smash DIed out of. In conclusion learning to pivot tipper and to use it correctly will make your marth SOOO much better, and makes marth arguably the best character in the game. Which is why I think every marth should be able to do it.
5. Pivot d- tilt and pivot u-tilt
These are incredibly good for walling out your opponent and for increasing your options out of dash dance. What you have to do for d-tilt is to dash my moving your stick back and down( but ever so slightly more in the backwards direction), and then you just have to move it down ever so slightly super quick to crouch and d-tilt. Uptilt is the same thing except up instead of down.
Alternatives to SH double fair
6. SH fair uair is really good. Usually you want to tipper the fair then it will lead directly into a Uair. Also something people will do to stop SH double fair is full jump to get above the fairs, and upair will counter that really well.
7. SH double fair fadeaway is a really good defensive option for walling out your opponent. You have to jump backwards, then move to the c-stick really quickly and then time the second fair(preferably using the c-stick again).
8. SH fair, first hit nair into grab. Doing a first hit nair immediately into a grab is super good because it is guaranteed at any percent(unless they SDI it up, then you have to uptilt or Uair).
9. Pivot SH nair and pivot SH fair are really good options out of dash. Once you learn to do one of these 1 frame pivot inputs , the rest should become easy.
Hope this helped! I'll update this thread with any new tech. Any suggestions in the comments are appreciated.
1. Doing a reverse up b on fox when he's in the start up of his Firefox. This one is kinda well known, but I thought I should put it on here anyways. Basically what you have to do is space it so that you're slightly above and slightly to the side of fox(this is actually really hard, you have to use the up bs max range.) The best way to practice this is to put a fox on handicap 7, yourself on 9, then just down throw him off at 0 percent. You can also get him in the last ten frames of his recovery, when he doesn't have any flames.
2. This one is significantly less known, and even harder than the 1st one. Dairing a fox in his initial start up, and trading with the flames. This is very useful after you jab a fox that side bs straight at you(in this situation jab is literally your only option, because nothing else is fast enough for you to react in time) and is also useful after you use jab to edgeguard in any situations. The problem after you jab someone is that they're too close to the stage for you to reverse up b them(if they up b immediately out of the jab, which foxs will do everytime because it makes the edgeguard significantly harder), and any other options is flawed. If you counter, fsmash, d-tilt, or neutral b, they can sweet spot it and these won't hit(and they will basically get on the stage for free while your still in your lag, and if you fsmash or counter you'll get punished really hard.) if you use an aerial such as fair to reach below the stage they can tech wall jump it. Dair is the only option that will get you the edgeguard against a really good fox, because they can't do anything to stop it and will die 100% of the time if you do it correctly because they can't sweetspot if they don't even start moving, they can't tech it, and it will kill them at 0%. It also useful for going really deep, because you get hit up by trading with up b frames, get to jump and then up b, making it possible to recover from literally anywhere fox can go. To practice it, just down throw a fox off at 0%, then jab him, then go down and try to trade with a dair. (Please note that foxs fire fox flames are every other frame between 20-32, and his up b start up lasts 42 frames.
3. This is very well known but I'll put it here anyways. You NEED to be able to pivot grab, because it is a basic necessity for comboing spacies, and is a very good option out of neutral. To practice this you just have to grind it out, no way around it.
4. Pivot fsmash is sadly only something pewpewu can do consinsently, although I think every marth should be doing it. It is very good in neutral because it gives you significantly more options out of dash dance, it is super good against peach, being garunteed off an f-throw from around 50-90%. It also good against marth and puff, because you can pivot tipper them off a throw by mixing up f-throw and b-throw. Also it is INSANELY good for tech chasing. It is one of Marths most reliable kill setups. Against fox, falco, falcon, and sheik, all you have to do is get a grab at 80+%, and then f-throw tech chase pivot tipper(which is easier than tech chasing with grab because it has more range) and its instant death. At around 40%+ it'll set up for an edgeguard. Marth has lots of trouble koing at higher percent because he can't do anything out of a grab and from 80-130% against most characters can really only throw out an fsmash in neutral to get them off stage. That's why people don't think marth is as good as fox and falco, and if every marth could do this, marth would become even better than fox in my opinion because he would have even more reliable kill setups. Pivot tipper is basically foxs upthrow upair, it works on every character in top 8(against puff peach and marth you do it right out of a grab, and against sheik spacies and falcon you tech chase). However it kills even quicker then upthrow upair and can't be smash DIed out of. In conclusion learning to pivot tipper and to use it correctly will make your marth SOOO much better, and makes marth arguably the best character in the game. Which is why I think every marth should be able to do it.
5. Pivot d- tilt and pivot u-tilt
These are incredibly good for walling out your opponent and for increasing your options out of dash dance. What you have to do for d-tilt is to dash my moving your stick back and down( but ever so slightly more in the backwards direction), and then you just have to move it down ever so slightly super quick to crouch and d-tilt. Uptilt is the same thing except up instead of down.
Alternatives to SH double fair
6. SH fair uair is really good. Usually you want to tipper the fair then it will lead directly into a Uair. Also something people will do to stop SH double fair is full jump to get above the fairs, and upair will counter that really well.
7. SH double fair fadeaway is a really good defensive option for walling out your opponent. You have to jump backwards, then move to the c-stick really quickly and then time the second fair(preferably using the c-stick again).
8. SH fair, first hit nair into grab. Doing a first hit nair immediately into a grab is super good because it is guaranteed at any percent(unless they SDI it up, then you have to uptilt or Uair).
9. Pivot SH nair and pivot SH fair are really good options out of dash. Once you learn to do one of these 1 frame pivot inputs , the rest should become easy.
Hope this helped! I'll update this thread with any new tech. Any suggestions in the comments are appreciated.
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