Marth - Pivot Down Smash - Realistic or not?

[PhilosophyCS]

First off just want to prefice this with two things very quickly. First, I searched the forums using the search bar, and didn't find this topic anywhere. If this is a repost, I apologize, and can always take it down or let a moderator do so.
And second, I made a YouTube video demonstrating this just in case anyone wants. You don't have to click it, it's just there if anyone needs. It'll be at the end.

Now, as for the actual topic — Marth's pivot down smash. I don't know why this intrigued when it did, but I was sitting at home, practicing pivot forward smash in practice mode, when it occured to me that I could also pivot down smash. I tried this against the CPU at the end of the stage and he was knocked back a little. I also tested a tippered pivot down smash, the effect it had was much greater of course. It got me wondering whether or not this could actually be used in a match. The example that came to mind is a dance-dashing or retreating Marth against a Fox who tries to go in for a shine, grab or nair. Not only is it an unexpected move, but it also comes out frame 5 *If I remember correctly, I could be wrong* and at medium-high percentages, should be able to knock away a spacie, and lead to a comfortable space.

Does anybody think this could realistically be used in a game? Is it far too situational to even be worth remembering and using? Could it be viable enough to use in a clutch situation? How would you use it?

Now, I can't recall ever seeing anybody doing this in a tournament match, but I'm not claiming to have come up with anything either. I'm not even sure myself how useful it could be. But if it's worth discussing, I would like there to be a discussion rather than none. Thanks for reading.

Marth's pivot down smash - Viable? Good? Demonstration. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH2fiqN6iTM

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

I'll start this by saying I've actually used this in matches in similar situations to the one you describe, but just adding more distance with a second dash in the same direction, if possible, and grabbing (or doing so sooner) is generally better.

It's an extremely fast and strong KO move that doesn't require people to be right next to you, so of course it's useful, but outside of comboing into it or using it as a KO move (or for corner/platform tech-chases), it's probably better to pivot grab the majority of the time for dealing with approaches, even if it's slower. Yes, the extra range and speed can be useful, but the purpose you're talking about but the slower pivot grab/dtilt (and harder in the case of the latter) will be more useful unless spacing's getting super uncomfortable for reasons I'll elaborate on below.

Grab still beats CC (so we don't need to restrict ourselves to medium percents and higher), leads into all kinds of combos, puts you into more control and takes control away from the opponent in determining where they land (no SDI on throws, or sourspots, or reverse hitboxes, where they're thrown from is based on your position as opposed to theirs). It unstales your non-grab moves, while you don't have to care about staling grabs for much of any reason (in singles), you can vary the timing on the throw... Did I mention grab beats shields, doesn't activate counters, and automatically beats non-grab hitboxes if the grab hitbox touches their hurtbox?

While I love looking at alternative options for various situations, for how to deal with them more proactively, safer, or to punish certain options harder, grab is literally the best move in the game (when not talking about specific movesets, anyway).

If your goal is to keep them away, dtilt's advantages are obvious: it's significantly less laggy, and the hitboxes tend to be much more horizontal (30 degrees all around for dtilt vs Sakurai angles and 75 for dsmash).

Now, to catch a landing from say, a puff or a Peach, this could prove extremely useful for when they're too close for an fsmash, or you simply don't have a big enough timeframe.

If they're approaching in a tighter space (and doing so grounded) this actually does become one of your better options if shielding or creating more distance seem unreliable. But this is a technique much more likely to see use in neutral for other characters.

I will say this can be quite good for dealing with dash attack and run up-jab approaches, but so can shielding or ccing. For run up shine, you can of course pivot grab before they'd be in range for shine to connect and you'll probably win the exchange.

 

[PhilosophyCS]

I'll start this by saying I've actually used this in matches in similar situations to the one you describe, but just adding more distance with a second dash in the same direction, if possible, and grabbing (or doing so sooner) is generally better.

It's an extremely fast and strong KO move that doesn't require people to be right next to you, so of course it's useful, but outside of comboing into it or using it as a KO move (or for corner/platform tech-chases), it's probably better to pivot grab the majority of the time for dealing with approaches, even if it's slower. Yes, the extra range and speed can be useful, but the purpose you're talking about but the slower pivot grab/dtilt (and harder in the case of the latter) will be more useful unless spacing's getting super uncomfortable for reasons I'll elaborate on below.

Grab still beats CC (so we don't need to restrict ourselves to medium percents and higher), leads into all kinds of combos, puts you into more control and takes control away from the opponent in determining where they land (no SDI on throws, or sourspots, or reverse hitboxes, where they're thrown from is based on your position as opposed to theirs). It unstales your non-grab moves, while you don't have to care about staling grabs for much of any reason (in singles), you can vary the timing on the throw... Did I mention grab beats shields, doesn't activate counters, and automatically beats non-grab hitboxes if the grab hitbox touches their hurtbox?

While I love looking at alternative options for various situations, for how to deal with them more proactively, safer, or to punish certain options harder, grab is literally the best move in the game (when not talking about specific movesets, anyway).

If your goal is to keep them away, dtilt's advantages are obvious: it's significantly less laggy, and the hitboxes tend to be much more horizontal (30 degrees all around for dtilt vs Sakurai angles and 75 for dsmash).

Now, to catch a landing from say, a puff or a Peach, this could prove extremely useful for when they're too close for an fsmash, or you simply don't have a big enough timeframe.

If they're approaching in a tighter space (and doing so grounded) this actually does become one of your better options if shielding or creating more distance seem unreliable. But this is a technique much more likely to see use in neutral for other characters.

I will say this can be quite good for dealing with dash attack and run up-jab approaches, but so can shielding or ccing. For run up shine, you can of course pivot grab before they'd be in range for shine to connect and you'll probably win the exchange.

So in the end, it does have it's applications, but it is extremely situational. That's kind of what I was expecting, but to get some specific instances is still really interesting. I'd still love to see it used in a game, though, just for fun.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

If any matches I played got recorded, I'd gladly show you, but due to a lack of practice for spacing these types of moves vs a grounded, mobile opponent (or practice in general, lately) I've drifted away from using this a bit. Because pivot grab is just soooo good. That and everyone I play crouch cancels almost constantly, so landing it at 0, then getting hit for hitting the opponent kinda just makes me grab more, and use move moves that will make them die for pressing a button getting knocked off stage.