Marth Patch Notes v1.0.4

[Darklink401]

There's the general thread here http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4.378404/

But I felt a Marth-specific one of all Marth buffs or nerfs should exist.


So far confirmed:

Dthrow and Fthrow can now combo easier, as you can act after them a lot quicker. Dthrow to upair can go up until 90-100%, and Fthrow to dash+fair can go up till 40-50%.


So far unconfirmed:

Marth's range seems longer with slashes, covering more area. His neutral B seems a bit longer as well, and his fsmash can tipper people right behind him easier.


Any other findings would be good.

 

[EternalFlame]

Ah sweet. This means great news for Marth, though I can expect a lot more complaining from that behind the head tipper now. I'll need to save my replays before I update though (as I made a few new recordings last night).

I'll get to work on analysing the new patch as soon as I am able

 

[LoreLes]

I can kind of notice the longer range. The arc on advancing Fair just seems to reach really far out, especially the bottom half of it. Utilt looks very different for sure, can't tell if it has more range but it definitely seems to cover a lot more space than usual from the way it looks.

 

[TheZage]

From my experience (some specifics):

• Nair is stronger- especially tippered.
• fair covers marth's body much like it did in melee. Its hit box in 1.03 stopped early and was a gripe with many people
• utilt reaches far enough behind marth so that it can punish rolls
• sideb has gotten weird. In some instances the fourth hit (side) hits easier.
• final side b hits harder.
• Knockback untippered fsmash seems to grow a bit more than it use to.
• a lot of moves have less "meatiness" on hit. this means faster follow-ups
• generally having a MUCH better time pressuring and comboing. This is probably due to other changes i havent figured out yet

 

[Darklink401]

From playing prepatch Marth, I realized that a LOT of times, my attacks would just like barely miss, when I know they SHOULD be connecting...now that his range and coverage were buffed.....well...I'm happy.... X3

 

[Wraeith]

I'd like to see comparisons before jumping to conclusions. There's always a lot of speculation and hearsay regarding tentative changes like range and reach. F-Air's arc was always pretty decent in Smash 4, so I'm going to remain skeptical for now.

 

[PK Gaming]

I performed a series of tests on Arena Ferox using the floor markings as a ruler of sorts. Marth's range did NOT increase whatsoever. Fair, ftilt, neutral B... the whole shebang. It's all the same. The damage is unchanged as well.

In fact, most of the "changes" you've all experienced are likely result of a placebo effect. The only confirmed so far is the downthrow buff.

 

[Darklink401]

I performed a series of tests on Arena Ferox using the floor markings as a ruler of sorts. Marth's range did NOT increase whatsoever. Fair, ftilt, neutral B... the whole shebang. It's all the same. The damage is unchanged as well.

In fact, most of the "changes" you've all experienced are likely result of a placebo effect. The only confirmed so far is the downthrow buff.

You're killin the dream DX

 

[Wraeith]

You're killin the dream DX

There's no point in believing something that will only prove a disappointment. This happens every patch and it gets annoying when people leap to the conclusion that their favorite character was buffed when in actuality nothing changed.

 

[Foodies]

The dthrow one isn't even confirmed in my opinion. I used dthrow to uair with moderate success even before the patch. Fthrow also appears unchanged.

Agreeing with the placebo comment.

 

[Darklink401]

There's no point in believing something that will only prove a disappointment. This happens every patch and it gets annoying when people leap to the conclusion that their favorite character was buffed when in actuality nothing changed.

At least we have the throw buffs.


Also Foodies, its confirmed you can act out of them faster.

 

[IzE]

From my experience (some specifics):

• Nair is stronger- especially tippered.
• fair covers marth's body much like it did in melee. Its hit box in 1.03 stopped early and was a gripe with many people
• utilt reaches far enough behind marth so that it can punish rolls
• sideb has gotten weird. In some instances the fourth hit (side) hits easier.
• final side b hits harder.
• Knockback untippered fsmash seems to grow a bit more than it use to.
• a lot of moves have less "meatiness" on hit. this means faster follow-ups
• generally having a MUCH better time pressuring and comboing. This is probably due to other changes i havent figured out yet

Nair doesn't tipper, unless they just now applied one.

Utilt could always catch people who roll behind you, but has limited distance and vary by size of characters.

Final side-b hits harder? All finishers or just the forward one?

 

[PK Gaming]

The dthrow one isn't even confirmed in my opinion. I used dthrow to uair with moderate success even before the patch. Fthrow also appears unchanged.

Agreeing with the placebo comment.

It's definitely confirmed. I don't have a actual training partner on me, but the difference between the 2 of them is fairly significant.

 

[Darklink401]

Nair doesn't tipper, unless they just now applied one.

Utilt could always catch people who roll behind you, but has limited distance and vary by size of characters.

Final side-b hits harder? All finishers or just the forward one?

Nair could always tipper from my understanding.

 

[TheZage]

I performed a series of tests on Arena Ferox using the floor markings as a ruler of sorts. Marth's range did NOT increase whatsoever. Fair, ftilt, neutral B... the whole shebang. It's all the same. The damage is unchanged as well.

In fact, most of the "changes" you've all experienced are likely result of a placebo effect. The only confirmed so far is the downthrow buff.

Im afraid of that possibility. Somebody please confirm all this with video footage. I have been playing marth alot in smash 4 but this patch makes him feel WAY different. Placebo effect is a definite possibility since i was so excited about the 1.04 patch, but his game feel is different somehow. Tippers dont feel as meaty and im killing at times i didnt expect to even land the hit. Either i got so pumped by the patch that my inner marth master awoke, or there are in fact some buffs.


Video footage comparing pre and post patch PLEASE!!!

 

[SamuraiPanda]

When you guys think you have picked Marth apart completely and have found all the changes you can that are CONFIRMED then compile the changes in one post and tag me. Ill add the post to the OP of our compiled patch notes. Thanks guys.

 

[IzE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymi9OkFuE2M

I'm watching wii u footage at 60fps with the slow down feature. Hopefully to pick any discrepancies.

 

[Foodies]

Don't know why people are saying "definitely confirmed" when we don't have concrete evidence comparing the old and new versions. It seems like everyone is testing the throws in training mode where the opponent doesn't DI/VI. Unless "definitely confirmed" just means more than 3 people are agreeing with it. More than 3 people thought Lucina's attacks were faster than Marth's when the game came out too.

I did go and test with an actual person briefly, and I will say it seems like dthrow followups are easier on lighter characters now. But I can't say if that already existed before the patch or not since I never went to specifically test that before the patch. However, I will say that the claim in the current OP (Dthrow to upair can go up until 90-100%) is too extravagant.

 

[TheZage]

@ IzE
Once again, it SEEMs like there is a small increase in reach (i never said range increased by much). I really hope im not imagining a buff when there isnt one. A vid with a side by side comparison in training mode would be great.

Also, PKGAMING, could you tape your tests and explain them? If you are correct then we should put this range confusion to rest. I feel that slight increase of range (if it exists that is) is a bit of a disjoint to the original smash 4 swing.

Also... for the love of god, why can't nintendo just post the changes?!?! All of this could be avoided!

 

[BraveFantasy]

Am I the only person that feels like tippers on all aerials are a lot more consistent now? Did the tipper hitbox change slightly?

 

[PK Gaming]

I don't have access to a recording device, so you'll just have to take my word for it in regards to range.

I'm taking back what I said about Marth's downthrow definitely being buffed. My brother came over, and we were able to do some tests in training mode (literal side by side comparisons), and there wasn't a significant difference between the 2 throws. We tested this on multiple characters too.

It's very likely his grab wasn't buffed at all.

I'm deeply sorry for misleading you. I didn't do a good enough job of testing it on my own.

 

[TheZage]

I don't have access to a recording device, so you'll just have to take my word for it in regards to range.

I'm taking back what I said about Marth's downthrow definitely being buffed. My brother came over, and we were able to do some tests in training mode (literal side by side comparisons), and there wasn't a significant difference between the 2 throws. We tested this on multiple characters too.

It's very likely his grab wasn't buffed at all.

I'm deeply sorry for misleading you. I didn't do a good enough job of testing it on my own.

Its no problem. We know you aren't trying to mislead anyone, because nobody here is trying to.We are all here to figure this out. Extensive testing, video comparisons, frame data, etc... - these will probable take a while, but will answer all questions in time.

 

[TheZage]

Am I the only person that feels like tippers on all aerials are a lot more consistent now? Did the tipper hitbox change slightly?

Now that you mention it. I feel it too. could just be a coincidence, but it would explain the new "game feel" of his i was talking about. Could be placebo or a real thing. idk

 

[TheZage]

@ PK Gaming can you and your brother test fsmash. I think i just got a really disjointed tipper off a jigglypuff. Sword didnt even touch her!

Im just throwing out fsmashes right now, and i think its been buffed. either that or fsmash is better than what we have been giving it credit for.

 

[PK Gaming]

I haven't found any differences with the Forward Smash.

 

[TheZage]

I haven't found any differences with the Forward Smash.

So it has always been that freakishly disjointed?! Good god!

 

[Zano]

if anyone has any confirmed changes, let me know, I can make a video of it.

 

[EternalFlame]

Other than that dthrow buff (which actually seems contextual based on weight of the target, even then I find it iffy), nothing else seems to have changed for Marth. Not that I'm complaining, as Marth is fine as is and doesn't really need a buff.

 

[Darklink401]

Other than that dthrow buff (which actually seems contextual based on weight of the target, even then I find it iffy), nothing else seems to have changed for Marth. Not that I'm complaining, as Marth is fine as is and doesn't really need a buff.

If they would give him his range back I'd be happy.

 

[Vex514]

I didn't have a way to record anything,but I tested Marth's forward smash range against Fox (just because i've been curious after reading this topic) and used Megaman's stage, pushing Fox all the way to the edge, and lining marths feet up with those small stripes on the ground and the range WAS increased. Not by much, only by the width of Marth's foot, but I could tipper a full stripe farther than I could before.

 

[Darklink401]

Wow, that IS big if true then.

Cuz if he could do that, maybe the hitbox itself was increased by that small amount.

And that's really all he needs.

 

[IzE]

I didn't have a way to record anything,but I tested Marth's forward smash range against Fox (just because i've been curious after reading this topic) and used Megaman's stage, pushing Fox all the way to the edge, and lining marths feet up with those small stripes on the ground and the range WAS increased. Not by much, only by the width of Marth's foot, but I could tipper a full stripe farther than I could before.

If this is true...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPhZywSg_so&list=UUYDH0ZyPCe67R6h2uRfcVkQ

 

[Darklink401]

If this is true...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPhZywSg_so&list=UUYDH0ZyPCe67R6h2uRfcVkQ

That is LITERALLY the best thing ever.

 

[EternalFlame]

If this is true...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPhZywSg_so&list=UUYDH0ZyPCe67R6h2uRfcVkQ

Oh good grief xD

Oh right, I didn't mention this earlier, but the DAir does seem more forgiving in terms of spiking. You no longer need the tip to spike, which is pretty good I'd say. It was mentioned on the general patch discussion post, so just following up on this end

 

[Zano]

placebo effects are pretty interesting

 

[Darklink401]

Oh good grief xD

Oh right, I didn't mention this earlier, but the DAir does seem more forgiving in terms of spiking. You no longer need the tip to spike, which is pretty good I'd say. It was mentioned on the general patch discussion post, so just following up on this end

That'd be really cool if it was legit.
Because it's hell to do it as is.


@ Zano - Placebo effects can't corrode actual measured distance, thankfully.

 

[EternalFlame]

That'd be really cool if it was legit.
Because it's hell to do it as is.


@ Zano - Placebo effects can't corrode actual measured distance, thankfully.

Give it a shot dude xD I can SH DAir spike Ganon on stage, no tipper involved. Though I should not have said seemed, since I actually did test it myself before I posted that xD

 

[Darklink401]

Oh well, I can do it on stage, but OFFSTAGE is where it really counts XP

 

[EternalFlame]

Oh well, I can do it on stage, but OFFSTAGE is where it really counts XP

True xD but by the principle that you no longer need the tipper means it's much easier to get. It seems to be around mid way on the blade when it is below and slightly infront of Marth to get the spike. It's a little easier, but it still is rather awkward to get xD

 

[Zano]

do you have solid proof of the measuring working that way or just having selective memory. If it is true that's neat and all but I'd rather have a way to know other than hearsay consindering all of the "buffs" have been debunked as of so far for marth