Marth or Roy?

[Namée]

Who do you think is better? I understand they are different characters that suit different playstyles, but looking at the current meta/ most recent updates, who is more powerful on a competitive level?

 

[NonSequtur]

Marth has done better, but that could be familiarity. I'd still give the win to our blue-haired hero-king, if only because while Roy might (might) combo better, to really land a meaty hit involves closing in, removing one of the advantages of a sword. He's also combo'd harder. I'd think of it like Fox/Falco almost. Falco is a beast... until his terrible recovery shows its face. To continue the analogy I think that Roy is slower than Marth, definitely falls faster, and while he has good killing/combo power the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. Definitely a close race though, Roy is a monster now compared to Melee where his sword was a wet noodle.

This could all be wrong though, as I am basically a novice at this game.

 

[DJ _ICE]

I think you should ask this on the Roy boards too, of course you'll get some Marth bias over here.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I think Marth is still a tiny bit better but its hard to judge cause they are so close. Roy's side-b and nB are better and he hasnt that marth problem of not getting mid-high-percent kills (if not Ken combo or tipper fsmash is landed) but i think marths better recovery and his safer play (doesnt need to commit that much) bring it back to a slight favor for Marth

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

This is totally a wonderfully impartial place to ask that.

 

[Xinc]

As a person who plays both, I can imagine Marth being a bit better because he has the advantages of not having to close in on an opponent, while if someone gets close, he could grab. Roy has to stick to closer contact which can be troublesome, but he has several more tools than Marth, such as the ftilt spacing and bair killing move.

 

[niffyjiffy]

In the matchup of Marth vs Roy, good Marths beat good Roys, bad Roys beat bad Marths. Until Marth gets his spacing down, Roy can just charge in on the inside and Marth has no hope. But in matches like Sethlon vs M2K, M2K's marth can quite easily time the tippers perfectly to hold Roy off flawlessly.

 

[Koga_]

In the matchup of Marth vs Roy, good Marths beat good Roys, bad Roys beat bad Marths. Until Marth gets his spacing down, Roy can just charge in on the inside and Marth has no hope. But in matches like Sethlon vs M2K, M2K's marth can quite easily time the tippers perfectly to hold Roy off flawlessly.

Indeed. Marth has a higher learning curve

 

[DJ _ICE]

I kind of want to know the opinions of the people who said that Roy is better, why exactly he is better. I don't want to sound harsh, I want to know what Roy has over Marth in addition to a much better killing ability

 

[Koga_]

I kind of want to know the opinions of the people who said that Roy is better, why exactly he is better. I don't want to sound harsh, I want to know what Roy has over Marth in addition to a much better killing ability

This.

 

[Thamauturge]

I love both, but Marth is better due to his great spacing and superior recovery.

 

[Koga_]

Actually Im gonna say the only edge Marth has is dair recovery range (roys is better since it has more hit frames) and gimp potential. This guy Roy's blade sweetspot is MASSIVE folks and he combos hard. Seriously, go into training and test him out. This is not melee Roy. His blade is alot more forgiving than Marths as far as spacing. U can still get sweetspots even at "pseudo tipper" distance.

However, people will pick Marth since he's been top flight for about ten years now

 

[DJ _ICE]

So? Roy has been buffed greatly but Marth still has: a much more USEFUL sweetspot range, along with slightly faster run, walk, attacks (if the frame data hasn't changed), far better recovery, a much more developed meta game, longer sword, much better recovery and a slightly longer grab range.

 

[G13_Flux]

im gonna have to disagree with the marth having a higher learning curve comment. Roy has a lot of extremely rewarding, yet difficult to land sweetspots, and he is not as forgiving in the neutral game. Spacing is every bit as important with roy as it is with marth, and in a lot of cases, roys spacing can be considered advantageous, particularly when it comes to comboing and killing. Just because marth is a bit better in the neutral game, doesnt necessarily mean than his whole game is better. who is better really depends on the MU and the stage youre playing on. In PM, theres so much more diversity than in melee, so its hard to give a concrete answer. Marth definitely has his advantages, but roy also has clear advantages too, and which set of advantages will outshine the other is only going to be determined by considering all the other factors that are present in the game.

 

[Koga_]

im gonna have to disagree with the marth having a higher learning curve comment. Roy has a lot of extremely rewarding, yet difficult to land sweetspots, and he is not as forgiving in the neutral game. Spacing is every bit as important with roy as it is with marth, and in a lot of cases, roys spacing can be considered advantageous, particularly when it comes to comboing and killing. Just because marth is a bit better in the neutral game, doesnt necessarily mean than his whole game is better. who is better really depends on the MU and the stage youre playing on. In PM, theres so much more diversity than in melee, so its hard to give a concrete answer. Marth definitely has his advantages, but roy also has clear advantages too, and which set of advantages will outshine the other is only going to be determined by considering all the other factors that are present in the game.

i respect this, however, go to training and test out Roy's "sweetspot" for yourself. I'm not exaggerating when I say it's extraordinary. One can actually be "tipper" range with Roy and still sweetspot. You don't necessarily have to fight inside as much as people seem to think with PM Roy.

 

[GeZ]

Marth is the better character. He spaces better, has a just as potent combo game, his grab game is better, and his movement could be considered better, or at least even. I actually prefer playing Roy, but it's no contest when you compare the two.

 

[foshio]

Gotta agree with the general consensus here. Marth>Roy, but I love playing as roy soo much!

 

[G13_Flux]

well @ GeZ , marths movement definitely is better. However, roy definitely has a far more potent combo game. Additionally, the thing people are really failing to mention here is that marth has a tough time killing once he gets past like 60-70 percent on most characters. If he misses that situational oportunity, hes not going to get a kill until about 160 unless he gets a lucky spike or is playing a space animal. roys combo game is far more streamlined to kill reliably at all percents. Low percent combos last longer than marths, and go straight into forward smash, which kills very early. mid percent combos last far longer than marths and go straight into bair, which kills very reliably at those percents. slightly higher percent kills can easily be obtained with neutral b, DED, counter, dair, or nair (up off the edge). Its absolutely no question that roys combo and kill game is more efficient than marth. Like ive been trying to say, a slightly better neutral game (grab range, spacing, slightly less laggy attacks, slightly higher speed) isnt the entire game. You need incorporate how well a character transitions from neutral > combo > kill, and also consider stage and MU factors, which i really see nobody doing.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What made Marth really good to my knowledge is just being able to prevent anyone from getting back to the stage. He sword says, "I see your attack at me from the air, I'll swat you away anyway". Many of the hits he gets outside of a few staple guaranteed follow-ups are you simply putting a well-timed and spaced sword between your opponent and the stage. The Roy in Melee I think could have done the same thing if he had the right values on some moves of his. As an example, Roy's tipper Uair did slightly less damage than Marth's non-tipper uair back in melee. Every time he hit someone they would never be in enough hitstun for Roy to actually recover from his own ending lag.

Well, all of that has finally been fixed with P:M. I think Roy could attempt to copy melee Marth's strategy. In this aspect, I cannot really see which one is better than the other. It really seems to come down to a few subtle differences among the characters. Each have their own unique combo weight that affects them differently. Overall, I think its too early to really say which is better. Currently, Marth just has the more developed knowledge base with lots of a people. They know what he can do and how to do it. Roy is too new.

I prefer his UpB to Marth's. If you hit with dolphin slash during recover some characters can just take the hit and hit you right back at lower percents. If you hit wih Roy's UpB you go flying regardless of percent. PLus, Roy has an actual Nair that Marth does not lol

 

[Koga_]

People are really riding for Marth die hard but don't seem to understand that this new Roy is not a joke. I guess people won't understand until more and more people discover Roy. Maybe m2k should pickup Roy seriously

 

[G13_Flux]

i mean i definitely expected it to happen. Its the same as how people still claim fox as god and say he has no disadvantageous MUs, and how everyone still thinks GW will be dead last on the tier list. Its all just due to "assuming melee," and not enough people are taking the time to factor in all the additional features project M has. Most of peoples arguments are valid in melee, but i just havent heard anyone really try to talk about differences and incorporate all these additional factors in this game, past melee.

 

[Koga_]

i mean i definitely expected it to happen. Its the same as how people still claim fox as god and say he has no disadvantageous MUs, and how everyone still thinks GW will be dead last on the tier list. Its all just due to "assuming melee," and not enough people are taking the time to factor in all the additional features project M has. Most of peoples arguments are valid in melee, but i just havent heard anyone really try to talk about differences and incorporate all these additional factors in this game, past melee.

Glad you understand project m =/= melee. Quite a few characters have new tricks and this affects matchups across the board. Melee is great but this ain't that

 

[GeZ]

I think that Marth does better in general though. @ G13_Flux I do agree that Roy has a more consistent combo game at all percents and Marth has an annoying stopping block but there are still a few factors people aren't taking into account.

For instance while Roy does now recover from his moves faster than his opponent in all situations where it connects, the tip of it hits like dinky plastic. That compounded with his less potent recovery makes chasing off stage a lot more dangerous for Roy. Also, and this one is more of a question than a statement, does the damage vary depending on the weaker or stronger hits for Roy's sword? And if so, wouldn't that mean that trying to space weak tipper hits to space runs a higher risk of the opponent crushing Roy's attack?

I also think that While Marth's combo game does drop off uncomfortably at a certain percent, he can still confirm kills at that point by employing his strong grab game, well spaced hard hitting moves (Fsmash), or pressuring an opponent off of a ledge and edgeguarding or gimping.

@ E Elyssa Xey Hexen I would like to point out that while Roy's Up B does excel in some situations where Marth's drops off, Marth's does still have some incredible utility that Roy's lacks. The largest, in my opinion, being it's jank hitbox's ability to get Marth back to the stage, while flinging the opponent further away from it, in one move. Up B edgeguard's with Marth are really strong in a silly way, but I feel that that, and his better recovery with his fall speed and physics, gives Marth an advantage when it comes to comparing recoveries.

Also, I'd like to point out that while a lot of people are just riding Marth's ****, Marth has two advantages that really shine because the game has an emphasis on them specifically, those being Movement, and spacing to a lesser degree. What not a lot of people realize is that characters (in Smash) do better or worse based on their movement options because the game is so movement centric. A large part of Shine's potency for instance comes not from the damage it does and the priority it has, though those are also factors, but from it's capability to swiftly change a characters momentum/ direction/ planned course of travel.

I'm not saying that Roy is garbage. As I said before, I prefer the character. But, Marth has superior tools in the frame of the game series. Movement will always be a hugely important factor and I think it's difficult to place Roy's very consistent and solid movement, with Marth's ludicrous and solid as hell movement.

Also Marth's grabs are dumb. For realsies.

 

[niffyjiffy]

i mean i definitely expected it to happen. Its the same as how people still claim fox as god and say he has no disadvantageous MUs, and how everyone still thinks GW will be dead last on the tier list. Its all just due to "assuming melee," and not enough people are taking the time to factor in all the additional features project M has. Most of peoples arguments are valid in melee, but i just havent heard anyone really try to talk about differences and incorporate all these additional factors in this game, past melee.

I think the Fox god tier is just because noobs can SH2L after 2 months. The tier list is often based on a super low level. That is probably why Mario is god tier too.

 

[G13_Flux]

actually the tier lists are always based off of characters at the highest level. if they were based at a lower level, fox and falco would be like.. mid tier.

but on topic, my overall aim isnt to say that roy is flat out better. I think it still going to take a lot of development of the metagame to get a good feel for where roy places. but roy has definitley improved significantly from melee, and has a lot of speed, kill, combo, and range advantages against a lot of the cast, such that its very clear to me that there will definitley be MUs where roy excels over marth. then there are tons of other factors to consider that will affect roys placement beyond simple character to character comparison. my overall decision isnt exactly decided yet, since its definitely a lot less black and white than it appears at first glance.

 

[niffyjiffy]

Hmm, that makes sense. Sorry about my misconception.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

People are really riding for Marth die hard but don't seem to understand that this new Roy is not a joke. I guess people won't understand until more and more people discover Roy. Maybe m2k should pickup Roy seriously

You mean the guy who performs surgery with Marth when he needs to win a match-up on FD.

Yeah I'm sure he thinks Marth is trash.

I also wanted to make a comment about how totally unbiased this poll will be, but I see past me already did so.

And Roy can't hope to edgeguard as well as Marth, at all, because of how rough he has it off-stage, but is better at landing finishers. Marth's combo game is not worse at all and if a match-up is bad for Marth, Roy isn't different enough attributes to have a largely different outcomes. It's not their match-up spreads that are particularly different, it's the way they play and approach their enemies. Movement, reach advantage and comboability are roughly equivalent for these two, but Marth's superior offstage game cinches it.

 

[Justkallmekai]

I say Marth cause Marth basically destroys Roy in the air. Roy can't do much to him in the air. And Roy's recovery........So bad.

 

[Realm_Knight]

I like both of them, but if I had to pick one it would be marth

 

[JustTheTip]

Marth is just plain superior in nearly every way. Roy is fun, though.

 

[burntfish44]

To answer your question op its all about what you want from a character

marth:
+fast
+can land a lot of attacks/combo like a boss
+fun stuff like ken combos
-doesnt hit very hard generally (unless its a tipper obv)
edit: - hard to play (needs tech skill)
roy:
+hits like a truck
+can juggle like a boss
edit: +easier to play than marth (tech skill isnt as important)
-fairly fast faller, prone to comboing
-slower than marth, can't just out outmaneuver your opponents

edit: sure you could just be a nerd and wavedash forward smash all day on marth but to play him 'correctly' and keep up with other people that are smart enough to not get hit by that, you need a decent amount of tech skill (if you arent L-cancelling on marth you aren't doing it right). I'm not saying roy doesn't benefit a ton from tech skill as well, im just saying that he can get along with B moves until his player learns the tech and juggling.


I like marth because hes faster and can do fun stuff like ken/m2k combos, and cuz he's decent vs spacies. But sometimes i feel like K0'ing someone at 50% and just neutral b/side-b them as roy

 

[Aidoony]

Marth is better his spacing game is slightly better he owns Roy in the air and longer grab range

 

[jackmorgan8]

I kind of want to know the opinions of the people who said that Roy is better, why exactly he is better. I don't want to sound harsh, I want to know what Roy has over Marth in addition to a much better killing ability

Far better edge guarding. While Marth has his d-tilt and d-smash, Roy's f-smash timed right before an enemy can grab the ledge is almost an instant KO. his n-B is also easy to guard with. Roy also has a easier time getting up onto a ledge and he is difficult to edge guard against.

 

[DJ _ICE]

Marth edgeguards FAR better. Why would Marth dsmash the ledge? He can dtilt someone a good distance away from the ledge, jump off fair/nair/bair/dair/neutral-b, tipper dair the sweetspot, tipper fsmash the sweetspot etc. Roy can fsmash and neutral-b tipper the ledge but so can Marth. I think unless Roy gets to the sweetspot safely, he has a harder time against edgeguarding. Marth falls slower and has an easier time mixing up his longer recovery or stalling for the right moment. If Roy can Blazer to the sweetspot, he's pretty safe, but until he get's there he has a hard time.

 

[G13_Flux]

roys onstage game is a bit more potent. while marth does have a slight speed advantage against roy, roy still has a speed and range advantage against a lot of the cast (with a range advantage against all but other swordsmen). roys set ups also lend him to longer combos that can get him to kill quicker, AND he doesnt have to have as potent of an edge guarding game in order to kill early. marth either needs to land a dair in that small 60-90% window or else he needs to resort to edge guarding or high percent kills. roy doesnt have that window where its hard to get kills, and from 70% all the way up to high percents, he has reliable combos that will land him kills from onstage. in terms of edge guarding, roy has what he needs in flare blade, and that move in itself is more valuable than most characters edge guarding tools.

in MUs where the slight speed advantage that marth has will make a big difference, meaning against faster or more ranged characters, i think he would have the advantage, but roys ability to trasition to kills against a large portion of the cast is too hard to ignore. He also more easily can take one hit and turn it into a kill, meaning marth needs to get more punishes in neutral to get the same effect (except for super FFers of course though).

 

[Spralwers]

I prefer Marth against projectile users (like Link) and characters with long reach (like DK and Charizard). Mainly because Marth is a step up in mobility and that helps so much, plus he enjoys the benefit of his opponent generally staying at or just past tipper range. Tippered dtilts and pivot fsmashes do so much work. His survivability is much better too, which means getting hit by a projectile or a long reaching attack is a lot less likely to turn into a death combo or death percent combo.

I prefer Roy against fast fallers and floaties. Hitting closer to the hilt happens pretty frequently against fast fallers, which gives Roy's combo and punish game a lot more flexibility and consistency. His bread and butter killing moves (fsmash, neutral B, bair, sometimes ftilt) have terrific horizontal knockback, which messes up fast fallers so bad. Plus at mid-high percents, tippers start tech chases pretty easily. On floaties, tippers are awesome for combos and dsmash kills fairly easily off the top. Roy's tipper might have weak knockback, but it still does good damage (ftilt and fair tippers deal 9%, I think dtilt tipper does 7%), and is actually what allows Roy to combo into killing moves at higher percents fairly consistently unlike Marth.

Who I think is better depends on the MU, and I think there's a decently good spread of MUs where either character does better than the other.

 

[WhiteKnight]

in my opinion Marth is better at 1on 1,, but i think that Roy is better for 3-4 player matches...

 

[Pure Royalty]

im gonna say roy. even im melee i liked the roy fox match up. i feel he is better against spacies and fast fallers. plus that back air is real nice

 

[The TaBuu]

Plenty of Marth bias coming your way, but whatever lol

Marth and Roy have (in my opinion) similar attributes that prevent them from being recognized as vastly different characters. Marth's spacing game, grab game and off-stage game is superior to Roy's and Marth also possesses slightly better mobility. And in a game where Melee is the copied-after engine, speed + mobility mean a lot. These small differences are what separate the two and put Marth ahead of Roy.
Someone also mentioned that Roy doesn't have any significant tools that Marth does not when it comes to a "bad match-up", making Roy inferior in this case

 

[menotyou135]

Marth is better at a passive game and controlling the match/map.

Roy is better at comboing and playing aggressive.