Marth mu help

[Gearitz]

I have trouble with Peach, Falco, and Sheik. With peach the projectile game and ledge guard can mess me up. Sheik I have problems with her in the air and her follow up game. Then I have no idea how to play Falco I just don't know what to do especially his dair because of how long it feels.

 

[Saint Shaden 009]

Peach: Stay tipper length away to threaten her with your bomb-ass sword to lessen the turnip threat and DD grab most dsmash and dash attack attempts. And unless you land tipper uptilt/upair/maybe ftilt/maybe fair/fsmash your gonna have to edgeguards her patiently. The ***** lives for a long time.

Shiek: Your sword range, grab range, DD, and basically all your movement options are all better than Shiek's. Use your best move (DTILT IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW) to control space so you can get those DD grabs to toss her in the air. From there, the world is yours.

Falco: If he's just jumping at you with dairs (I WISH THAT WAS ALL THE FALCOS IN MY AREA DID), then don't get hit lmao. Don't rush in headlong but don't let him dominate. If he just rushes at you with aerials instead of lasers (AGAIN WHAT A FANTASTIC WORLD YOU LIVE IN AND I WISH I WAS THERE) you can bait things out and get a grab or fair/nair his approach attempts. Get those all important grabs and chaingrab him/juggle him/toss him off and set up for an edgeguard.

This is the extremely simplified versionof the fantastic game of "What do?" players tend to find themselves in, so try to expand upon that. If you find answers yourself in practice from things people have said to get you started, you'll be even better in the long run imo.

 

[Twinkles]

Peach/Sheik play out pretty similarly in the grand scheme of things imo, mechanically you should differentiate between the two different dash-attacks/spacing options these two have you so can accurately bait options with your dash-dance. Otherwise, control neutral with dash-dance, remember Marth's threat of sword is more dangerous than his actual swings, but do throw out a dtilt/fair if you catch them slipping on their spacing. Grab -> uthrow on both, and focus on making it as difficult as possible for either character to come down safely.

For Falco, most Marths I notice struggle fundamentally with lasers, then get smacked around by everything else because they're so confused. Powershielding is a good option, another one is simply learning to deal with laser stun because it's actually deceptively low stun, and you can usually dash out before Falco can get any followup off his laser. Make sure you have your punish game down against Falco (both chaingrabs and gimp setups), because Falco will probably win neutral a bit more, you just have to convert harder on your openings.

Tai I've noticed likes PS -> wavedash forward into ftilt/fsmash. I like tank laser -> dash dance grab if they get predictable with laser -> nair/dair. Also, be aware if a Falco is starting to just sit still and standing laser, and try to snipe him with WD forward->fsmash because he's actually pretty vulnerable in the middle of his SHL before the laser comes out.

 

[Gearitz]

Peach: Stay tipper length away to threaten her with your bomb-*** sword to lessen the turnip threat and DD grab most dsmash and dash attack attempts. And unless you land tipper uptilt/upair/maybe ftilt/maybe fair/fsmash your gonna have to edgeguards her patiently. The ***** lives for a long time.

Shiek: Your sword range, grab range, DD, and basically all your movement options are all better than Shiek's. Use your best move (DTILT IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW) to control space so you can get those DD grabs to toss her in the air. From there, the world is yours.

Falco: If he's just jumping at you with dairs (I WISH THAT WAS ALL THE FALCOS IN MY AREA DID), then don't get hit lmao. Don't rush in headlong but don't let him dominate. If he just rushes at you with aerials instead of lasers (AGAIN WHAT A FANTASTIC WORLD YOU LIVE IN AND I WISH I WAS THERE) you can bait things out and get a grab or fair/nair his approach attempts. Get those all important grabs and chaingrab him/juggle him/toss him off and set up for an edgeguard.

This is the extremely simplified versionof the fantastic game of "What do?" players tend to find themselves in, so try to expand upon that. If you find answers yourself in practice from things people have said to get you started, you'll be even better in the long run imo.

What do I do off stage to counter the dair though?

 

[Twinkles]

Drop low, sweet-spot the up-b? How are you getting hit off stage by dair?

 

[Gearitz]

Drop low, sweet-spot the up-b? How are you getting hit off stage by dair?

Right before I grab ledge he short hop dairs me sometimes

 

[Twinkles]

Right before I grab ledge he short hop dairs me sometimes

If he has a habit of jumping in that spot, you can up-b a little early to catch him out of his jump if he likes late dairs to catch your sweetspot. Also, if you are going for the sweetspot and he somehow hits the dair, you can tech the dair (hold L/R as soon as you start your up-b).

 

[Gearitz]

If he has a habit of jumping in that spot, you can up-b a little early to catch him out of his jump if he likes late dairs to catch your sweetspot. Also, if you are going for the sweetspot and he somehow hits the dair, you can tech the dair (hold L/R as soon as you start your up-b).

He just waits till I do it it's not an every time thing just its how he's taking stocks. Once he's off ledge he's done because I'll just edge guard but if he pushes me to the point where I can't directly up b onto ledge he can usually get me

 

[Twinkles]

I'm fairly sure he can't actually hit the dair if you perfect sweet spot, but generally if you are off the stage at the point where you cannot choose to up-b between stage or ledge, you probably should be dead.

To clarify, is this a short-hop dair on-stage or a DJ dair from the ledge? Is it a late dair to cover the sweetspot or an early dair to cover the overshoot? Details like this can be pretty important in terms of deciding how to mixup your recovery.

 

[Gearitz]

I'm fairly sure he can't actually hit the dair if you perfect sweet spot, but generally if you are off the stage at the point where you cannot choose to up-b between stage or ledge, you probably should be dead.

To clarify, is this a short-hop dair on-stage or a DJ dair from the ledge? Is it a late dair to cover the sweetspot or an early dair to cover the overshoot? Details like this can be pretty important in terms of deciding how to mixup your recovery.

Late and I mean where you can kinda float to ledge still. It's a short hop from edge

 

[Twinkles]

It is just a double jump if it's from the ledge, getting your terminology down will help prevent a lot of confusion when you're asking for help.

If you're in the spot where it's either up-b to stage or up-b to sweetspot, he either has to start his dair low to catch the sweetspot or higher to catch you while you're going to stage. If he's just catching your sweetspot, up-b past ledge onto stage and try to DI dair in so you'll get sent into the stage.

Worst comes to worse though, you could just go for the sweetspot, SDI the dair into stage, tech it and recover off of it.

 

[Gearitz]

It is just a double jump if it's from the ledge, getting your terminology down will help prevent a lot of confusion when you're asking for help.

If you're in the spot where it's either up-b to stage or up-b to sweetspot, he either has to start his dair low to catch the sweetspot or higher to catch you while you're going to stage. If he's just catching your sweetspot, up-b past ledge onto stage and try to DI dair in so you'll get sent into the stage.

Worst comes to worse though, you could just go for the sweetspot, SDI the dair into stage, tech it and recover off of it.

Thanks a ton I'll try this out tomorrow at club and adjust from there.

 

[Saint Shaden 009]

Thanks a ton I'll try this out tomorrow at club and adjust from there.

Question: Do you save your jump for as long as you can? It can switch up your timing and mess with your opponents timing as well.

 

[Saint Shaden 009]

If he has a habit of jumping in that spot, you can up-b a little early to catch him out of his jump if he likes late dairs to catch your sweetspot. Also, if you are going for the sweetspot and he somehow hits the dair, you can tech the dair (hold L/R as soon as you start your up-b).

Does holding L or R as you upb when going for a sweet spot actually tech? I've never heard of this lmao

 

[Twinkles]

I think it's just an easy way to get the tech timing since you have like a 20-frame leniency and you're purely aiming for the ledge.

Something lots of old school Socal players do apparently, and it works pretty well whenever I try it.

 

[A_Reverie]

How I get techs (facing right for example): (hold) + - (Fast as possible. The last up input should give you your jump) (for B-air to face the stage.) You can also hold during hitstun for an extra ASDI input but it's only a tiny nudge. Try to Up-B low and close to the edge for sweet spot and be ready to input your tech as you see them go for the hit. You want to time all of those stick inputs as soon as they hit to SDI into the wall and jump with the last up.

 

[Sutekh]

Does holding L or R as you upb when going for a sweet spot actually tech? I've never heard of this lmao

Holding the trigger doesn't help, you just need to get the hard press like you would if you were teching on stage. After you up-b but before you actually get hit, input a tech with L or R and ASDI towards the stage. If you time it right, you'll bounce right off the stage and won't suffer any knockback. If you press jump after you tech you'll walljump. You can't input your tech during or after the move connects though, it has to be anticipated.

 

[Twinkles]

Holding the trigger doesn't help, you just need to get the hard press like you would if you were teching on stage. After you up-b but before you actually get hit, input a tech with L or R and ASDI towards the stage. If you time it right, you'll bounce right off the stage and won't suffer any knockback. If you press jump after you tech you'll walljump. You can't input your tech during or after the move connects though, it has to be anticipated.

Yeah holding the trigger doesn't actually do anything, lots of players do it anyway though cuz it's easier to get the hard press since tech window is somewhat lenient.

 

[FE_Hector]

Let me clarify about Falco:

Lasers have something like 6 frames of hitstun. Just work mentally on not minding getting hit by lasers a lot. Also, you can take advantage of platforms and slippery movement to screw up his laser game.

If he goes for a SHFFL dair, watch out. Watch his habits, though. A lot of Falco's will SHFFL dairshine and not get punished for it, but unless you do almost the latest possible dair, it's plenty weak to shieldgrabs. SHFFL nairshine is a lot safer, but also way harder to execute, which is why a lot of people don't like it. Also, nair tends to force them farther away than the dair does.

Far as your issues with his rising dair offstage go, make sure to save your DJ for as long as possible (sideB, then jump, then upB) because it's just super useful and helps prevent you from getting read. Also remember that holding the control stick different ways after initiating your upB makes you take different lines. Honestly, his choice of trying to make that kind of a risky spike should get punished.