Marth Matchups thread

[FEOwain]

I decided I'd make this because we're like, the only top 8 char who doesn't have one. And with all the controversy about certain matchups, it just felt necessary.

So just feel free to discuss matchups and junk here.
Mostly just what X character can do to Marth, what Marth can do to X character, counters for certain things, etc.

 

[Link24a]

Marth is that character that's pretty much even with every single character in the game

Except sheik. Unless you're pp you're done.

 

[FEOwain]

Marth is that character that's pretty much even with every single character in the game

Except sheik. Unless you're pp you're done.

Then I suppose we should talk about Shiek.

 

[Link24a]

Then I suppose we should talk about Shiek.

Well their neutrals are pretty much as good but sheik punishes harder


That's all I can say

 

[FEOwain]

Well their neutrals are pretty much as good but sheik punishes harder


That's all I can say

I dunno. Marth can juggle Shiek for a lot of damage and Shiek doesn't have many options to get down from the air.

 

[Link24a]

I dunno. Marth can juggle Shiek for a lot of damage and Shiek doesn't have many options to get down from the air.

Whoever is above the other has the disadvantage. Sheik's up air can kill and she can fair or Bair into an edge guard

 

[FEOwain]

Whoever is above the other has the disadvantage. Sheik's up air can kill and she can fair or Bair into an edge guard

I suppose. But if a Marth is really good at recovery he usually wont be edgeguarded due to trickyness, etc. I feel if more people played this MU the way PP plays it we'd all think it'd be in Marth's favour.

 

[FE_Hector]

So To be honest I feel like the biggest difference in this MU is that Sheik's kill moves are way better and Marth has to rely on tricky edgeguards in order to win. Sheik's fair, uair, and bair can all kill pretty easily, and her fair kinda sends you downwards, which makes it really awkward. If you can hit her far enough away that her upB won't reach, good for you, but odds are she'll be able to reach the ledge or at least the edge. Ledgehop bair (pulling some Falco tech) can actually throw her off if she was gonna be smart and wait a little bit before using her upB, but if she has the foresight to land on the very edge, a ledgedash/hop fsmash is really about the only thing you can get on her. I'm not saying it's an impossible MU, but it's certainly rough. If my bro and I are playing like we know we're capable of, I'll be able to show my take on the MU. Really just don't leave the ground much, dtilt into grab works quite well, and rack up as much damage as you can as quickly as you can. Pivot grabs or WD back -> JC grab to avoid her DACGs are really really nice.

 

[FEOwain]

So To be honest I feel like the biggest difference in this MU is that Sheik's kill moves are way better and Marth has to rely on tricky edgeguards in order to win. Sheik's fair, uair, and bair can all kill pretty easily, and her fair kinda sends you downwards, which makes it really awkward. If you can hit her far enough away that her upB won't reach, good for you, but odds are she'll be able to reach the ledge or at least the edge. Ledgehop bair (pulling some Falco tech) can actually throw her off if she was gonna be smart and wait a little bit before using her upB, but if she has the foresight to land on the very edge, a ledgedash/hop fsmash is really about the only thing you can get on her. I'm not saying it's an impossible MU, but it's certainly rough. If my bro and I are playing like we know we're capable of, I'll be able to show my take on the MU. Really just don't leave the ground much, dtilt into grab works quite well, and rack up as much damage as you can as quickly as you can. Pivot grabs or WD back -> JC grab to avoid her DACGs are really really nice.

Marth has other options like the Ken Combo for killing and he outranges Shiek. Keeping Shiek up and away from you is always good, so that means we need to use moves like dtilt, fair and uair. Shiek's recovery distance is not that great, so if she uses her DJ to recover you can just grab ledge. also ledgehop uair is reeeeeally good because it starts juggles.

 

[FE_Hector]

Marth has other options like the Ken Combo for killing and he outranges Shiek. Keeping Shiek up and away from you is always good, so that means we need to use moves like dtilt, fair and uair. Shiek's recovery distance is not that great, so if she uses her DJ to recover you can just grab ledge. also ledgehop uair is reeeeeally good because it starts juggles.

You make a good point. I should really start putting more work into my Ken Combos. Honestly, my Marth's worst nightmare is when I'm casually drifting towards the ledge and she fair's out of the blue. It's so annoying because her fair comes out a few frames faster than yours, so you've gotta expect her fair a few frames before it comes out. And if you weren't above stage/had already used your second jump.... You're very, very dead.

 

[FEOwain]

You make a good point. I should really start putting more work into my Ken Combos. Honestly, my Marth's worst nightmare is when I'm casually drifting towards the ledge and she fair's out of the blue. It's so annoying because her fair comes out a few frames faster than yours, so you've gotta expect her fair a few frames before it comes out. And if you weren't above stage/had already used your second jump.... You're very, very dead.

Like you said. It's best to predict the fair in that situation. You could even use counter, as that would send her away from the ledge. Also, I can't believe I've never told you this, but somehow someway Ike told me to find you and take you back to SerenesForest.

lel fe jokes

 

[_trix_]

Something I find to be really good against sheik(and all characters) is to di mix up using non-tipper fair and reverse up b. If they di away and/or down on a reverse up, she'll get boned. And if they di up and/or in on a non-tipper fair, she'll get ken comboed. So if you get them from 50-90% and choose the right di mixup in this situation, they're dead.

 

[_trix_]

Marths fair is actually a couple frames faster than sheiks fair. However her nair comes out a few frames faster than his fair(it comes out in 3)

 

[FE_Hector]

Like you said. It's best to predict the fair in that situation. You could even use counter, as that would send her away from the ledge. Also, I can't believe I've never told you this, but somehow someway Ike told me to find you and take you back to SerenesForest.

lel fe jokes

Far as Serenes Forest goes... don't remind me. I'm emulating Path of Radiance right now in Normal.. I loathe that multi-part stage in Serenes Forest with a passion. I still maintain that just 20-20ing (none of Awakening's reclassing), Ike and Hector are the two best characters in all of FE, though Owain can definitely wreck with the right father.

@ _trix_ It would appear I stand corrected. Marth's fair first hits on frame 4 (5 will probably be when it connects against an opponent level with you), whereas Sheik's will be active from 5-7, all of which is pretty likely to hit a level opponent. I suppose the issue is simply just that you've gotta have a small read on their movement cuz she's so fast jumping. IDK, may just be the fact that I have to improve overall as a player, which I've known for a while.

 

[_trix_]

Not many people use z for aerials(especially sheik players) so they're probably not gonna put out the fair till 10-12 frames after they start their jump. If you focus on reacting really fast, you can probably get a fair/air dodge/counter out.

 

[FE_Hector]

That's not exactly the issue. It's more a matter of how quickly Sheik rises. He just kinda full or short hops out to my location, fairs, and heads back. As said, it very well may be that I simply need to improve my reaction timing.

 

[_trix_]

@ FE_Hector Another thing people don't use enough in this matchup is neutral b. It's really good in matchups against characters that go even or close to even with marth aerially(such as sheik, falcon, marth). Although I haven't played a sheik in weeks and haven't tested it out on her, I use it all the time in marth dittos and it beats out all of his aerials. Should work against sheik too.

 

[FE_Hector]

I'll use a SH uncharged Sword Breaker sometimes if I need the extra range in front of and below him. Just an occasional mixup, but I really need to improve so much lol

 

[_trix_]

Also, random off topic thing. My friend plays Ganon and I know a lot of Marths have trouble with it cuz ganons fair beats everything. My advice for this matchup, the only way to beat his aerials is to either be really close because his aerials are super slow and you can fair him before they even come out(don't get too close though, cuz his jab is amazing). Or you can stay far away, be really patient, then fsmash him out of his many many l-cancel frames if he tries to aerial. Also run in counter can stop it pretty well. Also, if you have a lead you can wait for him to aerial, then do nothing and wait for the time to run out while he's in his 238573 L-cancel frames.

 

[FEOwain]

btw if anyone wants help with shiek pick up a secondary bowser lol
i dont practice shiek and can still jv5 a lvl 3 bowser lmao