Marth doesn't impress at E3

[Chukkaque]

People are always going to complain because things are not what they are used to.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

People are always going to complain because things are not what they are used to.

It's our true duty to adapt to the next challenges, including how our characters work! Not complain

 

[Chukkaque]

It's our true duty to adapt to the next challenges, including how our characters work! Not complain

Exactly! Typically my friends and I just move on with each new installment of smash, because its time to move on. But I've decided to start playing the other smashes again. Even so, I'm going to invest a lot of time into Smash4! I hope Marth does change. Smash 4 is all about Ground vs Air. It makes sense for Marth to be a ground fighter IMO. I am looking forward to "relearning" Marth and any of the old fighters who get tweaked around!

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Exactly! Typically my friends and I just move on with each new installment of smash, because its time to move on. But I've decided to start playing the other smashes again. Even so, I'm going to invest a lot of time into Smash4! I hope Marth does change. Smash 4 is all about Ground vs Air. It makes sense for Marth to be a ground fighter IMO. I am looking forward to "relearning" Marth and any of the old fighters who get tweaked around!

I'm just excited to see how everyone is compared to the other games, while I continue to play the other games ^^ its a nice spice of variety.

 

[Chukkaque]

Of all the things I've ever wanted to come to smash, its at minimum an Eliwood skin. Just give me a skin to put over Marth and let me play Eliwood!

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Of all the things I've ever wanted to come to smash, its at minimum an Eliwood skin. Just give me a skin to put over Marth and let me play Eliwood!

Eliwood is my favorite lord in the series, I'd approve.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I'm hoping the demo is an early build and the landing/ending lag issues have been adjusted.

Marth

 

[Meezus]

WIth a character as consistentlly good as Marth is, I can never see him being bad. I just think that Sakurai is making a huge effort to balance the characters out to avoid having another Meta Knight god tier esque character from happening. I think Marth will always be here to stay!

 

[Chukkaque]

WIth a character as consistentlly good as Marth is, I can never see him being bad. I just think that Sakurai is making a huge effort to balance the characters out to avoid having another Meta Knight god tier esque character from happening. I think Marth will always be here to stay!

Well I think its like what I mentioned earlier.

Smash4 is about ground vs air fighters. Since there appears to be such a difference and sakuari has said much, we are probably seeing Marth become a "ground" based fighter. Especially since his counter can now kill at 35%. Marth might be "lacking" some aerial strength, but Im sure his ground game has been powered up a lot.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Well I think its like what I mentioned earlier.

Smash4 is about ground vs air fighters. Since there appears to be such a difference and sakuari has said much, we are probably seeing Marth become a "ground" based fighter. Especially since his counter can now kill at 35%. Marth might be "lacking" some aerial strength, but Im sure his ground game has been powered up a lot.

Funny thing is if thats true (I've seen Smash 4 Marth still air combo a little bit) he'll be more akin to Roy

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

@ around 22:00 going forward you can see Ken play with Marth. He's doing pretty good for just using Melee esq tactics, especially when this game is more ground based.

Ken also lands a pretty legit Fair combo despite the landing lag on it. I thing the hitstun in this game compensates for the aerial lag.

Still feeling good about Marth.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Looking good, also liking that Ken not only played Marth but another character I use Link. Haha

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Looking good, also liking that Ken not only played Marth but another character I use Link. Haha

Lol right? I play Link too, in fact, he was the character I played when I got a chance to play smash 4 (After waiting in line for 5 and a half hours to play for. 2 minutes). He feels really good. His aerials are basically lag less and the Dair spike is ****ing dope.

The Nair > Jab > Grab Ken did was solid.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Lol right? I play Link too, in fact, he was the character I played when I got a chance to play smash 4 (After waiting in line for 5 and a half hours to play for. 2 minutes). He feels really good. His aerials are basically lag less and the Dair spike is ****ing dope.

The Nair > Jab > Grab Ken did was solid.

It's funny I went all through smash since 64 not using Link too much then more recently in Melee and PM in particular I just find Link is who I have the most fun with other then the FE guys and some others

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

It's funny I went all through smash since 64 not using Link too much then more recently in Melee and PM in particular I just find Link is who I have the most fun with other then the FE guys and some others

Link was my main in 64 actually. I still play with him in every iteration of smash, including Brawl. His combo utilities in 64 were amazing and he's just so fun. I moved on to Marth because he was basically Link on cocaine.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Link was my main in 64 actually. I still play with him in every iteration of smash, including Brawl. His combo utilities in 64 were amazing and he's just so fun. I moved on to Marth because he was basically Link on cocaine.

I use both quite a bit haha. Both are so fun to me. As I said among tons of the rest of the various casts

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I think some people here are rushing their judgement. Remember, this is pretty much a beta build of the game; there is still work left to do and gameplay to polish. Sakurai and co. were taking feedback during these events, in hopes to improve the game upon it's final version.
Besides, nobody is an instant expert. Most people can't get an entire grasp of the character and the game within just a few minutes of playtime. Let's be patient and wait until release, hopefully this game gets balanced.

 

[Reginleif]

I don't think his polish will completely turn Marth back into top tier. I think they nerfed him for a reason.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I don't think his polish will completely turn Marth back into top tier. I think they nerfed him for a reason.

None of us are certain about that yet. Better be patient than hasty.

 

[SirPainsalot]

Yep, it seems like the reason they "nerfed" him is because Lucina is going to be the fast cloned Marth of old.

Funny, Lucina became Marth, Marth became Roy, practically.

 

[SaturnFrost]

Yep, it seems like the reason they "nerfed" him is because Lucina is going to be the fast cloned Marth of old.

Funny, Lucina became Marth, Marth became Roy, practically.

Who knows,she might not have tipper game. From what we've seen ,imo, she does look a bit faster than marth but this may result in her being weaker (strength wise) since Sakurai says he wants this game as balanced as possible.

 

[Severn]

Yep, it seems like the reason they "nerfed" him is because Lucina is going to be the fast cloned Marth of old.

Funny, Lucina became Marth, Marth became Roy, practically.

Yeah it sucks, I hate the fact that we have a newcomer clone, didn't think any newcomers would be clones this time around. But she is a clone of one of my mains, and since she looks faster than Marth I may use her instead. But in all honestly I would rather not have her ingame, Robin is enough.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Apparently no double fair on short hop.
Throws are worse almost universally, and a solid grab game is what keeps Marth strong in terms of pressure. This could really suck for him.

Hitboxes/etc seem iffy.

Yeah with grab game nerf, I don't know if Marth's moveset will cut it.

Well so far we dont know if lucina can do any of that to. and grabs in general have been greatly changed not just for marth.

No need for posts like this on the Marth boards. Mkay?



Marth's a culture. I'm sure every one of our loyal sect will play him in Smash 4, but if he really is mediocre, his usage will wain. He's been high tier in two games, but wasn't easy in either (especially in Brawl [in a contemporary/cohort type of way, not technical way]). People enjoyed him for his play patterns which gave rewards for precision (well timed fairs using spacing techniques of dashing, retreating jumps, forward jumps, your mid air jump, fast falls, DB1, etc) in a way fully "counterable" by competent opponents (wouldn't be the first time a nerf like that happens though). I'm sure we'll put significant work into things, but if Marth has no rewarding gameplay due to these nerfs, we won't enjoy him (simple things like no follow ups on Fair at all, ever is going to feel awful).

Most of my concerns on his viability is based off a bug that will lose him stocks (RCO). Marth's character design is otherwise solid.

Early build of the game is what we saw for wii u but for the 3ds witch is farther ahead in development marth can do 2 f air's maybe not in a short hop but can be done quite easilly in a normal one.

Because you can't frame trap with Fair or easy F-throw > F-smash or D-throw / F-throw chain to tipper F-smash / Spike on space animals doesn't mean Marth is bad. He can still Full hop double Fair, he can auto cancel SH Fair, his Nair and Uair have low landing lag, his Bair is hella buffed along with a reduction on landing with his Dolphin Slash.

Marth isn't bad, players are just going to have to be more creative.

marth can u b out of sheild if that means anything.

 

[Chukkaque]

There are just way too many judgments being casted in this thread without any hands on experience to back it up.

Yes, Lucina is essentailly a glorified Marth clone, but so was Roy. Roy had some key differences, as will Lucina, and lets not forget custom movesets. Besides I noticed in the video that her Nair does a double slash front facing and a slash behind her, Marth's Nair doesnt do that. She will be quicker and lighter. People also seem to forget that Smash 4 is about ground vs air, so with Marth now being a ground fighter(NOT NERFED) but more designed for ground combat, it is likely that Lucina will be the air counter part.

Theres nothing wrong with speculation, but there is no reason to cast judgment or to decide if characters are nerfed or not before the game is even released.

 

[Shaya]

Marth's nair is a single strike forward than a 360ish second strike (hence two slashes front facing?)

 

[Reginleif]

Marth... slower? Does this mean queen of ylisse Lucina will be the fastest rep for Fire Emblem?

I don't think his polish will completely turn Marth back into top tier. I think they nerfed him for a reason.

Not my prediction coming true

 

[ChivalRuse]

A lot of this thread is speculation. We won't know much until the U.S. release...

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Well Marth did not impress at the Demo and the stuff in Demos can be changed.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

In which way is Dancing Blade nerfed? Is that being said because the timing is trickier in general?

Also, something promising - it seems that Ken pulled off a double Fair combo in a full hop. I don't remember the video, but I'm pretty sure it was a combo, or at least a worthwhile move strong.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

No matter what I'm still gonna use Marth and Ike as I've used him since melee (- Ike). I'm guaranteeing his sword game is much better than in brawl. I feel like his strengths will revolve around dancing blade and chaining slashes more and less on chaining grabs as such.

 

[Shaya]

Dancing blade has humongous ending lag on all hits, especially the first (you can't use it as a poke/etc).

Full hop fair was already pretty staple in Brawl and was recommended because it actually allowed you to combo fair in Brawl longer (Marth's fair is capable of comboing indefinitely framewise + due to move decay, just requires to use jumps + rely on full hop momentum to stay in range).

Marth's iteration in Brawl was a more balanced/well rounded character.

 

[Jru]

We're gonna have to just wait and see how this latest version of Marth works.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Honestly, as long as Lucina isn't replacing Marth I don't care for her

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYdK5d1PzKw&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

As shown here, marth can still kick some ass. Well, kinda.

I saw some nice uses of Fair in this. The Marth player knew what he was doing.

We still can't take much from this because I don't know the level of experience of the players (although it's clear that the Marth player knows how to play Marth), and because this is still FFA with items on.

I'm still somewhat optimistic about this.