Marth? Approaching? Jumps?

[TFO]

Hi! I'm new to smashboards but have played project m for a little while and know that I am fairly good at it (I'm good at wavelanding,wavedashing,prettymuch all the fancy stuff) I used to main Wario and tried Mario but I have a friend who uses Marth and my main problem was approaching him. I decided I would use Luigi because he seemed like he had many options for approaching. I have now spent about 3 days working on him (maybe 6 hours total) and have gotten pretty used to his movements, but not fully.

How do I approach Marth when he is standing a little farther away than my side b rocket (no misfire) can go. When I was using Mario, I was about that distance away on Yoshi's Island (maybe Story, the one with one long platform, NOT 3 small platforms) and he/Marth was waiting for me to come at him. I didn't feel like fireball spamming and if I went on the platform, he would U-smash me.

Also, maybe this is because of not having enough practice, but I am finding it very hard to do a simple short hop with Luigi.... how can I learn to use it better and also, I find myself, with his slow falling speed, awkwardly in the air and have no idea what to do. In that situation, which I hope you have had to overcome in the past, what did you do? what is the most reliable air attack in your opinion?

Again, I know I am new and no, I do not compete in any tournaments or have an online wifi profile (my wireless connection is weird) I play against my friends fairly often though and I again know that I'm not BAD at the game but would like some advice for approaching characters in general, but MAINLY Marth.

Thank you!

 

[TFO]

Also, I was thinking of making one of my strategies killing at low percents with storing misfires then d-throwing into it to kill at about 50% and of course... SHORYUKEN!!!!!! I'm guessing these are very unreliable and I shouldn't try at all... also, the end lag on the side b is really bad (on land), so, when could I try to find a misfire? when they're ko'd? Also, should I, if the enemy isn't ko'd yet, wavedash to the ledge to hog it or again, try for a misfire to store?

 

[Boomer3d]

you seem to be more flashy then viable imo. For marth what I like to do is fake approach and then cyclone in, Marth is also super easy to combo after cyclone so give it a try. Luigi is also just awkward when he is falling back to the stage, that is just what happens. You have to just try a bunch of options just to get back down, down-air, nair, and even cyclone sometimes.

But for general approaching here are a couple main methods I use:

• fireball to make them approach
• cyclone in
• wave dash in with a jab, f-tilt, shield then grab, or downsmash

for short hop go in to practice and do it until you can do 100 in a row.

For killing:

• Fair, pretty powerful and pretty big hitbox, can surprise your opponents.
• Dair, the hitbox doesn't last long but it is more powerful then fair, can combo d-throw from high percents into it or jumping out of shield
• A combo-breaker nair will kill your opponent if the are above 120ish (character dependent)and also get the benefit of making them super frustrated.

Misfire and shoryuken are flashy but are also very punishable so I don't advise you to use them as your staple killing move.
For ledgeguarding

• Bair-> Bair->Bair->Bair

 

[TFO]

Thank You! Again, I'm kinda new so I'll definitely work on these!

 

[TFO]

Any advice on these two words..... Shield Pressure?...... anyone?

 

[Hyper Crasher]

You should stay grounded for the most part and weave in and out with your wavedashes, if you get him in his shield, good shield pressure would be using your short hop double aerial tech

 

[Broasty]

From my experience of fighting Marth on a daily, here's what I've found.

Fireball. Burn him til he realizes that he is never in a neutral position, rather it's either your at the advantage or he is. Supposing you play someone with a lot of Luigi matchup experience, you'll find there are only 4 approach options.

WD Shield Grab: easy for him to punish at when he's playing defensive. By this I mean that if you're going to approach him in anyway, all he has to do is use his jab to put you in shield stun and push you away. Usually I've found this is bad to do since one hard hit from Marth means you're off stage and gonna have a baaaaaad dayyyyy. It's usefulness peaks at the beginning of a stock and at the end. At 0%, you can DThrow->DThrow->Aerial combo to potential finisher of Shroyuken. At the end (high percents), you can Dthrow->Fair.

WD Ftilt: Terrible at low percent, great at higher percents. Use after 60%. Why? Because before 60%, Marth can CC and counter with an attack that puts you off stage. You don't want that. At high percents though...great stuff. Watch out though, a defensive Marth will out range you during your approach and kick you off the stage.

Down Special: Basically like Ftilt except with high risk and reward...at early percents. Later percents means aerial combo...which could mean a kill move finisher. Remember to aim it so it you end up on the back side of Marth and tap repeatably so you're slightly off the ground so you can instantly Nair and continue shield pressure.

Fireball: And now, the low risk high reward option. Why risk yourself to an trading blows and being off stage when you can fireball him. Should you constantly fireball? No, but you should when Marth puts the game in a neutral position. Basically, your fireballs are the gamechanger. You can use them with Wavelands to become an offensive approach the moment your opponent starts raging and claims all you do is camp.

Let me go farther to point out fireballs allow Luigi to go from a terrible edge guarder for Marth to a God tier edge guard. Plop them out at a safe distance from the ledge, short hop and fireball to predict jump options, and ftilt after hit confirm. Try to ftilt him with the brief opportunity you have when he Up-B to recover.

 

[TFO]

Ok! So I went to my first crew battle a little bit ago and I did good! Unfortunately I lost the battle with the crew, but that's okay, nothing was on the line XD Anyway, the main problem I encountered many times was getting back on the stage from the ledge. Now obviously the opponent is going to do anything they can to ledge-guard but I need some better ways to SAFELY stall/get back.
The things I've already tried are: f-air enemy if they are too close, detach from ledge then jump back and grab ledge (Two problems with that move: First, against Marth, if I don't space it perfectly I can still be hit by his f-smash when I'm under the stage even though it's a sword and it can't freaking cut through the side of the stage but it still freaking does!!!!!! UUURRRRGGGG I HATE THAT MOVE! And second, because Luigi is so floaty, he takes longer to jump back to the ledge after detaching from it.), after stalling, rolling back on with L or R (that seems to work well but it is punishable if read).

Should I try wavelanding back on? jumping sounds like a stupid option but I've noticed that I can waveland back on by jumping from the ledge with x and immediately use L or R ASAP. Other way is detaching from the stage then jumping on the stage and wavelanding back on from under the stage, but this one I've noticed is VERY, VERY risky because I see pro players mess it up and lose a whole stock because of it!
Which option should I use?

I would also like to thank everyone for answering my many questions which I will continue to ask on this thread! so...

THANK YOU!

 

[Cubelarooso]

The later method of wavelanding onstage, called "ledgedash," is allows for a longer slide and is faster, which is important since you're trying to preserve that invincibility. I definitely suggest you practice it. The former method, called "ledgejump waveland," is usually good enough though, but if you're over 100% (making ledgejump even slower and an SD less destructive) you might as well try to ledgedash.

You can regrab much faster with Up-B than with your double-jump. Don't forget that Luigi can grab the ledge from fairly far away, so feel safe to drift quite a bit back; that should avoid Marth's sword, or at least throw off his tipper spacing.

 

[Broasty]

I get back with the two WD methods, attack get up, roll,, drop->Fair, and drop->UAir. Reading your opponent is super important.

 

[TFO]

Hi again, I just have been wondering for a while what Vist is doing when I watch him jab into a grab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Z7fR2O7oM at just a second or so after 1:09
is Vist just doing a quick WD into grab? Because whenever I try to immediately grab out of a WD, nothing happens, I just slide.....

 

[Broasty]

Hi again, I just have been wondering for a while what Vist is doing when I watch him jab into a grab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Z7fR2O7oM at just a second or so after 1:09
is Vist just doing a quick WD into grab? Because whenever I try to immediately grab out of a WD, nothing happens, I just slide.....

No he just dash grabs cause the range of your grab is bigger that way. You can't WD grab that fast.

 

[TFO]

Ok, yet another one of my questions
Lets say that I'm shielding a move with lots of knock-back, such as Ganon's Dair, Marth's F-smash
Luigi will slide away awkwardly (as expected) but I can't approach even with a WD,
I'm then put back into neutral game....
I fail to punish for reading an attack and shielding it....
I'm sad
how do I approach after I slide in my shield? should I throw a Fireball then WD when I'm done sliding back? Should I immediately cyclone into them?

 

[Hyper Crasher]

Ok, yet another one of my questions
Lets say that I'm shielding a move with lots of knock-back, such as Ganon's Dair, Marth's F-smash
Luigi will slide away awkwardly (as expected) but I can't approach even with a WD,
I'm then put back into neutral game....
I fail to punish for reading an attack and shielding it....
I'm sad
how do I approach after I slide in my shield? should I throw a Fireball then WD when I'm done sliding back? Should I immediately cyclone into them?

Your best bet is just to either go back to neutral or wavedash like crazy. There may be times where the best option is just to go back to neutral.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

From my experience of fighting Marth on a daily, here's what I've found.

Fireball. Burn him til he realizes that he is never in a neutral position, rather it's either your at the advantage or he is. Supposing you play someone with a lot of Luigi matchup experience, you'll find there are only 4 approach options.

WD Shield Grab: easy for him to punish at when he's playing defensive. By this I mean that if you're going to approach him in anyway, all he has to do is use his jab to put you in shield stun and push you away. Usually I've found this is bad to do since one hard hit from Marth means you're off stage and gonna have a baaaaaad dayyyyy. It's usefulness peaks at the beginning of a stock and at the end. At 0%, you can DThrow->DThrow->Aerial combo to potential finisher of Shroyuken. At the end (high percents), you can Dthrow->Fair.

WD Ftilt: Terrible at low percent, great at higher percents. Use after 60%. Why? Because before 60%, Marth can CC and counter with an attack that puts you off stage. You don't want that. At high percents though...great stuff. Watch out though, a defensive Marth will out range you during your approach and kick you off the stage.

Down Special: Basically like Ftilt except with high risk and reward...at early percents. Later percents means aerial combo...which could mean a kill move finisher. Remember to aim it so it you end up on the back side of Marth and tap repeatably so you're slightly off the ground so you can instantly Nair and continue shield pressure.

Fireball: And now, the low risk high reward option. Why risk yourself to an trading blows and being off stage when you can fireball him. Should you constantly fireball? No, but you should when Marth puts the game in a neutral position. Basically, your fireballs are the gamechanger. You can use them with Wavelands to become an offensive approach the moment your opponent starts raging and claims all you do is camp.

Let me go farther to point out fireballs allow Luigi to go from a terrible edge guarder for Marth to a God tier edge guard. Plop them out at a safe distance from the ledge, short hop and fireball to predict jump options, and ftilt after hit confirm. Try to ftilt him with the brief opportunity you have when he Up-B to recover.

Wow that helps a lot for this match up. Great explanation

 

[TFO]

I know that this is the character discussion forum, but whenever I try to load PM 3.02, I get a black screen after hitting play .
I later learn that this is because I am not connected to nintendo Wi-Fi. I have decided I will avoid this problem by just finding PM 3.0, the one that actually works! so please, if you know where I can download 3.0 (mediafire maybe?) I would appreciate it so much!
THANK YOU

 

[TFO]

YAY, I am now connected to Nintendo Wi-Fi! I just need to wait for the Wi-Fi set/safe to finish downloading, which will take 2 hours...