Marth 1.1.3

[DariusM27]

Feel free to move or change this post, but someone needed to start it, lol.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Problem with DB is that the first hit is the one that they can easily DI out, so this doesn't really help in connecting the entire thing at higher %. Also, whats the thing with Down 3?

 

[Vipermoon]

Dthrow always true comboed into Uair on some characters until around 120%. That's just without DI, with frame perfect inputs, and the fact that you can air dodge before hitstun ends.

We have the game data. Dthrow is the same.

 

[DariusM27]

Problem with DB is that the first hit is the one that they can easily DI out, so this doesn't really help in connecting the entire thing at higher %. Also, whats the thing with Down 3?

That's why I suggested intentionally wiffing db1 while descending to the stage.

Also, on stage you can land 1, then quickly wiff 2, and mash 3 asap. If you land 3, you're golden, and it has a decent chance of landing. After that, you should practice your timing, but landing 4 is cake.

 

[H-O-G]

MARTH!!!!!

 

[DariusM27]

Yeah, getting kills with dancing blade is a great option now. Fastfallers especially are in for it - Sheik, Falcon, Fox. Go Marth!

Again, just know your timing. Above 100%, once you land the 3rd hit, if you throw out 4 immediately it may miss. The hitstun on hit3 is pretty good though, so practice and get the hang of it!

Does anyone know if the hitstun of db1 is greater than before? If so, that could help with jumping db1 combos.

 

[Pugwest]

I haven't tested it yet but when i first read the data I thought "great marths nerfed again"

People may be asking why but if you have good experience vs a character like Diddy you would know the he pops out of dancing blade easily. Now that we have less knockback my assumption is he can super easily just di out of dancing blade 1/2. Overall nerf.

But I must test more, if its true im furious.

 

[DariusM27]

I haven't tested it yet but when i first read the data I thought "great marths nerfed again"

People may be asking why but if you have good experience vs a character like Diddy you would know the he pops out of dancing blade easily. Now that we have less knockback my assumption is he can super easily just di out of dancing blade 1/2. Overall nerf.

But I must test more, if its true im furious.

First, you've been amazing to watch in tournys. Seriously, you are a friggin rock star.

Second... Duuude no way it's a nerf lol. It's working as a killmove really well! The hitstun might be greater or same, while the knockback is less, meaning they just stay in your hits more easily until the final strike.

I mean, if Diddy could Di out before, if anything it will be harder for him now.

I've never gotten so many kills with it. I'm really happy so far.

But definitely let us know what you find. If it does have some nerf issues, that would suck

 

[Vipermoon]

You guys are hilarious. Hitstun is based off of knockback. The more knockback there is, the more hitstun. That is the ONLY thing that affects hitstun.

Other than whiffing DB1 intentionally, the DB2 knockback growth decrease isn't really going to help much.

One thing that came out of this is 1, 2, down 3, forward 4 tipper at higher percents so there's that. The bad thing is that if you are against floatier characters (including against Marth), you can't really do 1, 2, down 3, down 4. Down 3 angle increase to 44 degrees puts them too high for all of the down 4 hits to connect. They can jump out or something.

 

[Bribery]

Other than the DB changes, Marth feels exactly the same. I believe landing lag across the cast was already tested and Marth didn't receive any changes there (I'm so jealous of Mewtwo getting -4 landing lag on basically all his aerials...). I hope the February patch brings better changes.

The DB changes were nice but it still has issues connecting at higher %s. At least Down 3 isn't totally useless anymore. F1, F2, D3, F4 is decent.

 

[SM_Marth]

Has anyone looked at his hitboxes? I know that Up tilt and Fsmash needed the hitboxes to match his animations but I haven't tested it yet.

 

[DariusM27]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvrJGu6kncw&app=desktop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTgWTZdzJ2o&app=desktop

:D

"Say Dancing Blade got nerfed..."

 

[Vipermoon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvrJGu6kncw&app=desktop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTgWTZdzJ2o&app=desktop

:D

"Say Dancing Blade got nerfed..."

I've been getting DB kills this way for many months.

 

[DariusM27]

I've been getting DB kills this way for many months.

I know it worked before, it's just more consistent now and works at higher percents.

 

[Vipermoon]

I know it worked before, it's just more consistent now and works at higher percents.

No it's the same.

 

[DariusM27]

No it's the same.

Dancing Blade 1/2 Hit 2-forward

• Hitbox 0/2 KBG 70 -> 30
• Hitbox 1 KBG 50 -> 30
• Hitbox 0/1/2 BKB 28 -> 30

So, even though these large changes to knockback growth were made, the first and second hit will still have entirely no difference at all than before the patch?

You probably got the kills with hit 3 and 4 before patch, but now there's a better chance that landing db1 will string into the others at higher percents.

In any case, it is impossible for it to be the same, because the data shows these changes.

If you argue with that, then you're probably trolling.

 

[Vipermoon]

Dancing Blade 1/2 Hit 2-forward

• Hitbox 0/2 KBG 70 -> 30
• Hitbox 1 KBG 50 -> 30
• Hitbox 0/1/2 BKB 28 -> 30

So, even though these large changes to knockback growth were made, the first and second hit will still have entirely no difference at all than before the patch?

You probably got the kills with hit 3 and 4 before patch, but now there's a better chance that landing db1 will string into the others at higher percents.

In any case, it is impossible for it to be the same, because the data shows these changes.

If you argue with that, then you're probably trolling.

I guess you missed my post that said Thinkaman's format here says Dancing Blade CUSTOM 1 and 2: HIT 2 ONLY. Hit 1 doesn't even have these knockback values in the first place (its kb values are and still are 25b/75g). Unless they're dumb and they DI in, the only way to get the tipper 4 forward at the ledge is if it's before usually 90%. At those percents (before 100%) the knockback adjustments of DB2 ONLY won't make enough of a difference to really affect anything (and DB2 should only hit fast fallers at that percent anyway in which case the kb matters even less unless DB1 misses). I've done this hundreds of times to know that DB2s old knockback at those percents wasn't high enough to ruin anything let alone be noticeable.

 

[Pugwest]

I guess you missed my post that said Thinkaman's format here says Dancing Blade CUSTOM 1 and 2: HIT 2 ONLY. Hit 1 doesn't even have these knockback values in the first place (its kb values are and still are 25b/75g). Unless they're dumb and they DI in, the only way to get the tipper 4 forward at the ledge is if it's before usually 90%. At those percents (before 100%) the knockback adjustments of DB2 ONLY won't make enough of a difference to really affect anything (and DB2 should only hit fast fallers at that percent anyway in which case the kb matters even less unless DB1 misses). I've done this hundreds of times to know that DB2s old knockback at those percents wasn't high enough to ruin anything let alone be noticeable.

If you DI out during dancing blade you give the person using Marth a free tipper which kills, If you DI in marth will sour spot which doesn't result in kills usually.

currently testing everything. The thing i'm sad about the most is short hop db1 into n-air into kill confirm looks impossible right now. It was the only 100% kill combo we had.... going to test on all the high tiers first.

First, you've been amazing to watch in tournys. Seriously, you are a friggin rock star.

Second... Duuude no way it's a nerf lol. It's working as a killmove really well! The hitstun might be greater or same, while the knockback is less, meaning they just stay in your hits more easily until the final strike.

I mean, if Diddy could Di out before, if anything it will be harder for him now.

I've never gotten so many kills with it. I'm really happy so far.

But definitely let us know what you find. If it does have some nerf issues, that would suck

Also thank you, I'm trying very hard to make the meta with this character. Ended up making a twitter since Nairo and the NJ boys basically forced me to lmao.

 

[Vipermoon]

If you DI out during dancing blade you give the person using Marth a free tipper which kills, If you DI in marth will sour spot which doesn't result in kills usually.

currently testing everything. The thing i'm sad about the most is short hop db1 into n-air into kill confirm looks impossible right now. It was the only 100% kill combo we had.... going to test on all the high tiers first.

What? No, we're talking about dancing blade at the ledge. The ledge stops Marth from moving forward on the 4th hit. They go too far for i to even reach if they DI away at a percent that the tipper would kill at the ledge.

As for your second paragraph. I thought I made it clear that DB1 is unchanged? If you don't believe me, you to the patch notes discussion thread and ask away or simply check out the patch notes.

 

[DariusM27]

So "Db 1/2" doesn't really mean db 1 and 2, and is really only talking about DB 2 only, except for Db custom 1.

So Db 1/2 means Db custom 1 and normal2

If it was a change to Db custom 1, he would have written "custom" somewhere in the patch notes, I would think.

 

[Vipermoon]

So "Db 1/2" doesn't really mean db 1 and 2, and is really only talking about DB 2 only, except for Db custom 1.

So Db 1/2 means Db custom 1 and normal2

If it was a change to Db custom 1, he would have written "custom" somewhere in the patch notes, I would think.

You're confusing me. Just read this and go with it:

Dancing Blade and Effortless Blade's 2nd hit received those changes. And then for the 3rd down hit, only Dancing Blade received changes (because you can't angle EB). That's it. Simple as that.

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-3-patch-notes.425921/

If you look at the format for the rest of the characters, its becomes very easy to read Marth's section. It goes Character, Special, Custom number.

Example:
Link
Up Special 1/2

• A Million tiny buffs and tweaks (these moves have a million hitboxes, too many to list)
• Uncharged total frames from 81 -> 77
• Full charge total frames from 139 -> 136

 

[DariusM27]

well F*^&^

 

[SM_Marth]

So I'm going to bring this up out of no where. Has anyone else noticed Marth tipper acting strange? On some hits that should be tipper they're not. It's always been like this for me but what about anyone else?

 

[Vipermoon]

So I'm going to bring this up out of no where. Has anyone else noticed Marth tipper acting strange? On some hits that should be tipper they're not. It's always been like this for me but what about anyone else?

It's all about which hitbox touches your opponents' hurtbox first. It can't be controlled beyond that. You're going to get situations like this including the inverse.

 

[BozzMac]

This move works on Ness a lot better now, so I'm happy.