Mario's Ground Pound and Spin Jump Abilities

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

I was thinking about the abilities all the playable characters from Mario game series (except spin-offs) possess and I noticed both of the Italian brothers (Mario & Luigi) usually possess the skill to Ground Pound enemies in almost every Mario game. I was wondering if it would be better to remove Mario's current Down B-Air and replace it with a Ground Pound attack, which could serve as a meteor smash similar to Wario's. Although it's a common move from Mario game series; it should have already been part of his move-set from the start of Super Smash Brothers development. I personally think it would rather be a move that could buff his move-set. The Tornado Spin serves more as Mario's D-Air than Down B-Air in my opinion, which it was his version of Brawl's D-Air. Also, I suggest Super Mario 64's Spin Jump ability should be added to Mario as a recovery flight mechanic, allowing him to fly towards the stage while holding the X or Y (jump) button. The Spin Jump ability could also benefit Luigi as his recovery improvement. Other than that, as well as Luigi, Mario should possess the ability to crawl; it could serve well in occasions. What do you guys think about it?

Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrQ1W2A72X4 (Spin Jump shown at 00:24)

 

[uCooL]

absolutely not, Mario's D-air is vital to his combo game.

 

[yellowdee]

I see how it adds to the Mario series flavor, but if it replaced the current d-air, I'd have to agree with this other fellow's post here.

However, I'd be all ears for a "double-A" input to produce that down-air, and Luigi seems like he'd benefit straight-up from such a change. The thing that people tend to be touchy on, though, is if the changes force them to change their current gameplay.

 

[uCooL]

I see how it adds to the Mario series flavor, but if it replaced the current d-air, I'd have to agree with this other fellow's post here.

However, I'd be all ears for a "double-A" input to produce that down-air, and Luigi seems like he'd benefit straight-up from such a change. The thing that people tend to be touchy on, though, is if the changes force them to change their current gameplay.

Luigi's d-air is really good also. Dont try to fix somethin that aint broken man.

 

[MrM]

i would like to see a ground pound but no way would i let it replace marios dair

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Well, Mario Tornado is pretty terrible...

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

I see how it adds to the Mario series flavor, but if it replaced the current d-air, I'd have to agree with this other fellow's post here.

However, I'd be all ears for a "double-A" input to produce that down-air, and Luigi seems like he'd benefit straight-up from such a change. The thing that people tend to be touchy on, though, is if the changes force them to change their current gameplay.

Yeah, I always wanted to see Mario and Luigi with their series flavor abilities, but I guess your right; the current D-Air does serve to set up combos.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Yeah, I always wanted to see Mario and Luigi with their series flavor, but I guess your right; the current D-Air does serve to set up combos.

Under.
Statement.

Every single one of Mario's aerials is essential to his gameplay. His moves flow into each other either irrespective of DI, or with great follow-up ability. Flavor is never, ever important enough to merit sacrificing function.

Mario Tornado is useless? Don't use it to recover, then.

Don't fix what ain't broken, and Mario is really, really not broken.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Under.
Statement.

Every single one of Mario's aerials is essential to his gameplay. His moves flow into each other either irrespective of DI, or with great follow-up ability. Flavor is never, ever important enough to merit sacrificing function.

Mario Tornado is useless? Don't use it to recover, then.

Don't fix what ain't broken, and Mario is really, really not broken.

Project M openly sacrifices utility for flavor. vBrawl Wario's dair is a fantastic move, which would have translated well into a Project M environment. Same with his forward smash. But, they wanted a Wario Land feel, so they changed them.

And I didn't say useless. I said pretty terrible. It CAN be used for recovery, but still pretty terribly.

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

Project M openly sacrifices utility for flavor. vBrawl Wario's dair is a fantastic move, which would have translated well into a Project M environment. Same with his forward smash. But, they wanted a Wario Land feel, so they changed them.

And I didn't say useless. I said pretty terrible. It CAN be used for recovery, but still pretty terribly.

I agree on how PM:BR have work so hard to make the game an openly sacrifice utility for every character's respective game flavor abilities; other than balancing the meta game.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Cool idea; it's an unnecessary idea though.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Project M openly sacrifices utility for flavor. vBrawl Wario's dair is a fantastic move, which would have translated well into a Project M environment. Same with his forward smash. But, they wanted a Wario Land feel, so they changed them.

Yes, Wario's new dair and FSmash are terrible moves that were included in his kit only for a Wario Land feel, but are far inferior to the options he already had.

-_-

Wario was likely designed with a specific design goal in mind, and then flavor was added on top of it. His Dair lets him shift his vertical momentum and position abruptly, enhancing his already stellar aerial mobility and air game. His FSmash animation was changed because his Side-B is now the shoulder bash. Side-B already has several options and mix-ups, one of which was removed in 3.0 (crouching to cancel Side-B) as it was deemed to versatile. The FSmash animation was very likely changed for a similar reason: Too many mindgames, Wario is already plenty janky without having exceedingly similar animations for two completely different moves, one of which is already pretty versatile.

Please do not make unsupported claims as if you know the PM:BR's intentions perfectly when you are only speculating. Sonic's new Forward Air gave him a solid gimp option. Meta Knight's new dair nerfed his ridiculous edgeguarding game. That they happen to be moves from other games they appear in is very likely a healthy accommodation of flavor, not an assertion of the importance of flavor over utility.

And Mario does not need a ground pound.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

M-M-Ma-MY LORDSHIP
-feeeelz

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Please do not make unsupported claims as if you know the PM:BR's intentions perfectly when you are only speculating.

Glass houses, bro.

Mario's dair is crucial to his playstyle. Down-B is not.
Completely ruling out a ground pound because it couldn't positively change Mario's game is just as ridiculous as saying it's absolutely necessary. What I was saying is it isn't unprecedented.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I never advocated a radical moveset change based on a faulty assumption of design priorities.

Moves should not be suggested because "It wouldn't hurt, but add flavor." It should be "This is something this character needs, can fit well into its existing playstyle without altering it too radically and complement how the character plays." Does Mario really need a change to his moveset? Does a ground pound really make sense in the context of how Mario fights? "Because flavor" is not a good enough reason, at all, and the burden of proving that the change is positive is on the advocate, not the deterrent.

If you can't justify it's inclusion, ask for a ground-pounding taunt. Otherwise we're done here.

 

[GeZ]

Jesus Christ, Lordling making literally all the right points. Adding things for funsies rather than to help a characters functionality is never the intention from the PM:BR. So requesting something like a ground pound, not with expanding the character's game in mind but instead with flavor as the only concern is as silly as the complete change to Ganon requests, and won't be considered for the same reasons.

Also Down B not being useful? Do these players even play Mario? Holy hell.

 

[deadjames]

Well, Mario Tornado is pretty terrible...

Not really, it's absolutely necessary for Mario's recovery, and it's pretty much the only follow-up he can get off of a grounded footstool, sure it's not practical, but when you do it your opponent will be in shock that they seriously got hit by that.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Down-B is god like on recovery. You guys should try it, what I usually do is place my face on the B button, the red button, then I roll my face strictly around that area of my controller.

Real wrap, Down B is amazing on recovery, your just not an amazing recovery artist, like me.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

There are lots of moves that exist to "feel" more like the character. We only know they change the play style for better or worse because they're already there.

Donkey Kong's dash attack is another example. While his original wasn't totally without uses, they decided that a DKC style roll fit his flavor. And they added mechanics that make it work for him.

What if some 1-day member had came in and said "Wouldn't it be cool if Mewtwo could float? Like Peach, but in all directions!" People would say it's stupid, mess with his DJC, etc.

I'm not advocating putting it in the most literal and laziest way and just make it Yoshi's Ground Pound. But Mario could benefit from a shield bounce, or maybe it could be JCd like Bowser Bomb.
I'm not saying Mario absolutely must have a ground pound. I'm not saying that Mario Tornado is useless. Mario's as is, and we don't have any influence either way. It was a stupid topic to begin with, but mostly what I was saying is that PMBR is more creative than transliteration or "ain't broke don't fix it"

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Mario's Down B is great for recovery, as well as catching characters with fast falling speeds (such as the Spacies) off-guard every now and then. It is also a decent mixup for faking out a Dair, because of how the tornado stalls into air for a small amount of time, which can catch some people by surprise.

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

I made little adjustments to the topic!

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Congratulations, your post is literally worse than before.

a) Mario's current down-air is really good, and really important to his combo game and playstyle.
b) Mario's Down B in the air is NOT a good attacking move and is most certainly not like his dair. At all.
c) That spin jump is very similar to Mario's Down-B in the air already ... so why are you suggesting that Down-B be replaced with a ground pound, and move to down-air ... do you even know how to play Mario?

So you want to remove a strong recovery option (Down B), replace it with a move that doesn't in fact add to the way Mario fights (he does not employ vertical combos and already possesses a meteor) and replace one of his best moves with one that is nearly useless offensively? Do you even have idea what you're talking about? Scratch that, it's clear you don't.

Look, you're just adding suggestions across character forums that are needless, without properly thinking about how it could enhance the character's gameplay or even fully understanding how the characters work. I get you're new, but you need to understand that you're new and stop making pointless character suggestions that completely undercut the way they play, or actively harm their playstyle. The PM:BR are not going to accept these suggestions, so you culd say it's harmless, but it's also pointless and it's not the purpose of these character forums. It is getting to the point where it's basically spam.

 

[GeZ]

Lordling is completely right.

What you need to do is focus less on changes to characters and more on those characters strategies and interactions. Project M is made by the people, for the people so to speak, but that doesn't mean the development team is looking to change characters in any way the community suggests to appease the community. Wait on posting and read through more threads. Get a better grasp of the game and then come back and have meaningful discussion about the game in its current form so you can expand your ability as a player, rather than spamming the forums with requests to change characters that you have a very poor grasp of.

And above all, stop posting these threads. They're really pointless and en masse betraying how little you know about this game.

 

[Drodeka]

This is I think the third thread I've seen you suggest a new attack with, and they've all been different characters. While this is debatable on being your best idea, you haven't fleshed out a way to incorporate the idea, and definitely suggested pretty much ruining Mario as a character.

Don't just say "mario should have a ground pound", because it's not interesting to read and it's certainly not helpful. You should at least toy around with the idea before posting it, and always try to make a new idea enticing in some way, because as I said, it's pretty much a terrible idea so far.

Mario having a ground pound would be cool, but I can't think of any way for it to fit in with his Smash representation at all, and even if it could, it would now have to replace one of his existing attacks, which IMO, are ALL GOOD.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Do you even have idea what you're talking about? Scratch that, it's clear you don't.

Lol'd

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

This is I think the third thread I've seen you suggest a new attack with, and they've all been different characters. While this is debatable on being your best idea, you haven't fleshed out a way to incorporate the idea, and definitely suggested pretty much ruining Mario as a character.

Don't just say "mario should have a ground pound", because it's not interesting to read and it's certainly not helpful. You should at least toy around with the idea before posting it, and always try to make a new idea enticing in some way, because as I said, it's pretty much a terrible idea so far.

Mario having a ground pound would be cool, but I can't think of any way for it to fit in with his Smash representation at all, and even if it could, it would now have to replace one of his existing attacks, which IMO, are ALL GOOD.

Relax! I'm just trolling around with these suggestions, nothing personal. Every character are fine with their current move-set. Donkey Kong and Toon Link's thread are not a joke, though! But, every other thread I've opened are based on my imagination!

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

Lordling is completely right.

What you need to do is focus less on changes to characters and more on those characters strategies and interactions. Project M is made by the people, for the people so to speak, but that doesn't mean the development team is looking to change characters in any way the community suggests to appease the community. Wait on posting and read through more threads. Get a better grasp of the game and then come back and have meaningful discussion about the game in its current form so you can expand your ability as a player, rather than spamming the forums with requests to change characters that you have a very poor grasp of.

And above all, stop posting these threads. They're really pointless and en masse betraying how little you know about this game.

I know a lot about this game. It seems you still haven't noticed these threads as a joke. Though I wasn't joking about Donkey Kong and Toon Link's threads, nothing personal!

 

[GeZ]

I know a lot about this game. It seems you still haven't noticed these threads as a joke. Though I wasn't joking about Donkey Kong and Toon Link's threads, nothing personal!

You're a ****ing idiot dude. These forums are here for discussion about the game. Trying to pass off dumb posts as "joke" posts is asinine. There's nothing to suggest you know a lot about this game so can it man.

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

You're a ****ing idiot dude. These forums are here for discussion about the game. Trying to pass off dumb posts as "joke" posts is asinine. There's nothing to suggest you know a lot about this game so can it man.

Well, these threads still remain as ideas whether they are good or bad... does it harm your feelings to import "ideas" even if they are considered as joke? Don't take it seriously. If you don't like it, then don't comment; easy as that! I have better ideas, involving character balance, though. Ideas which are not taken in consideration on character move-set.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Please, do not share anymore of your ideas. Since you consider these a jokes, tell them to your friends, not the community, and as a FYI, we aren't your friends. If you feel so compelled to, "enlighten" us with your humor, try posting in the off topic section. Maybe there, your posts will be appreciated.

 

[Lucienta Angelus Anarkiel]

Please, do not share anymore of your ideas. Since you consider these a jokes, tell them to your friends, not the community, and as a FYI, we aren't your friends. If you feel so compelled to, "enlighten" us with your humor, try posting in the off topic section. Maybe there, your posts will be appreciated.

Fair enough... As I said earlier on other threads I've opened; one of the reasons I opened these threads was because since PM:BR changed Wario's move-set based on Wario World and Wario Land game series as well made minor improvements on Samus and Mewtwo taking inspiration based on their games, too. So I the team was looking for ideas, regardless how silly the ideas may sound.

 

[Fortress]

Weegee's dair is rock-solid, Mariah doesn't need Wario's dair. He's good with being able to lift people off the ground, rack up damage, and just pressure with his current dair.

What else is there to discuss?