Mario Training Regimen (+Help with some specific characters)

[Luddoj]

I've been playing Mario for 10 years now. 9 & 1/2 years were spent as a casual player, and I just joined the competitive community about half a year ago, so I have just half a year of experience playing against other skilled players and learning advanced techniques and all that good stuff. And I'm really proud of my improvement up to this point.

However, as hard as I try, I struggle a lot against friends who use characters on the S Tier, specially against Shiek, Marth, Peach, Fox, Jiggly and Falco. Falcon I can handle, at least a little.

My problems with those characters are as follows:

- Against Shiek: getting chaingrabbed (normally the chain starts because of a shield grab), needles completely DESTROY my recovery, Shiek just chains like 15 moves against my plumber and then finishes by conveniently linking F-Tilt > F-Air, U-Air

- Against Marth: the matchup is really hard, Marth ridiculous grab range and his disjointed hitboxes, cannot approach properly, always get spiked.

- Agains Fox: as soon as I get shined, I'm done. My body gets pushed across the stage and is sent flying away by Up Smash or Up Throw > Up Air, or if I'm pushed off the stage, Shine Spike. Cannot grab because shine is out way too fast, laser adds a lot of percentage when I'm not approaching and if I approach I'll probably end up dead, cape is almost useless because of Fox always going for the sweetspot or mixing up recoveries. When Fox crouch cancels my attack I should be ready to be wave shined to my doom.

- Against Falco: SHORT HOP DOUBLE LASER - PILLARING. GG

- Against Peach: Too floaty and way too much priority on her aerials. Trying to recover is just stupid.

- Against Puff: I really hate this matchup. Puff can make you play its own game at its own pace. The game is slow and it basically consist of you trying to approach while also avoiding her aerials with really dumb hitboxes. Side B's hitbox is out for SO LONG. Back air chain while off stage is death. I can't combo or chain attacks after my grabs, and most of my hits just send Puff too far away, so when I try to chain other moves I just get hit with a Pound or a N-Air.

I don't have a lot of experience against Samus so I don't know what Mario's weaknesses would be, I assume the Cape just works well for that MU. I wouldn't know how to edgeguard though, since Samus has a lot of options to come back to the stage.

Falcon is not that bad. I think I can chain lots of attacks after each other right after a grab. Plus, Mario has chaingrabs and edguarding the good Captain is not really that hard due to his predictable recovery pattern.

So my question is, how to improve? I already know how to: keep my movement consistent with wavedashes and dash dances to bait out certain moves (works for Shiek and Marth), always waveland to trick the opponent into attacking and leaving themselves open for an attack of my own, waveland grabs, CC Smash Attacks, Up-Smash OoS, Waveland form ledge to stage, D-Air to Up-Tilt or Down-Smash, Up-B Walljump (have to practice it when starting the Up-B away from the wall, as I consider that to be pretty tricky and I still haven't found the timing to it), also I can get the max range out of the Tornado for recovery purpouses, B-Reversed Fireballs + Waveland and chaingrabbing most of the characters.

I need to learn how to SHBAWD to keep the pressure on, space my attacks better to avoid getting shield grabbed, practice the "Marth Killer" (Light Shield Edgeguard) as I have never used that before and start learning how to Smash DI properly, I guess.

Mind sharing with me your training regimen with Mario? How much time do you spend practizing and what exactly do you practice? On which stages?

Also, keep in mind that I have to train mostly on my own, and smashing against CPUs is not a very good thing, since they don't act AT ALL as real players do. They never sweetspot, they don't try to edgeguard you, Fox never waveshines or tries to shine spike you, Falco uses laser while standing up and the only thing Marth does well is starting jab combos as soon as you approach. Is there a way to actually LEARN or PRACTICE something while battling CPUs?

Also, any more suggestions or techs I should practice or learn, plus, information on how to counter the characters I mentioned above, and how to get over all those obstacles I mentioned as well, would be amazing.

I love Mario, I just think that it has to work way too much to achieve what Shiek or Marth can, and I want to learn how exactly I can get the most out of the character. I don't plan on playing Space Animals, and some months ago I started playing Falcon as my secondary, but can potentially become my Sub-Main. Still, even if I end up switching mains (Samus and Shiek are really fun to play with too) I think having a really good Mario in store can really throw off some people because of the rare MU and beacuse they don't know, or at least not right off the bat, what actually works against him.

...Except for Fox. He can Waveshine > Up-Smash/Shine Spike anything and win.

I hope you can help me and I'll be waiting or your replies. Thanks in advance!

 

[TehGuitarLord]

Practicing alone is limiting, but not impossible. Plenty of top players practice alone, so it's definitely possible. As of late my bro wants to play more smash 4 than melee, so I find myself practicing alone more often.

Level 1-3 cpus aren't the worst thing to do. Obviously they can't do a lot, but it gives u a sense of how to juggle, chain grab, edguarding, and more. It is limiting, but it's not completely useless. I take a theoretical approach to fighting cpus. See at what percents combos do or don't work.

I'm not amazing at up b walljumping, but as any mario main in melee knows, there's an insane amount of potential to the point where if u can guarantee it to happen every time, u can do some sick **** and will live a lot longer. My best is only 4 in a row, but that's a start.

Treat the cape as your best friend. The cape will never let you down... as long as u don't spam it in the neutral game. I'm not too experienced in the samus matchup, but i wouldn't spam cape or use it too much. That would make your opponent just get a free charge for a charge shot, free grabs, approaches, etc. In the neutral game, it's a really good read tool for punishing projectiles, but don't get carried away. How I mainly use cape is off the edge. Obviously u come back to the stage with it, but it trumps A LOT of recoveries (fox, falco, marth, falcon!). When i fight lvl 1s and they up b, I'll back throw them and cape them to practice my gimps. Even using fireballs to harass them off stage before caping can be good. What if fox or falco side bs? Shield and backthrow endlessly to make them feel that their recovery options are limited, rhus baiting them into getting edgehogged, baired, caped, etc, or fsmash and get a free punish.

Marth can be a pain in the ass, but he's not impossible. Tbh, smash 4 has helped me in this matchup in the sense that it's more read heavy than most matchups. There's a likely chance the marth will have no idea how to juggle u or know what u want to do because of how little mario mains there are. That gives u an advantage. Down throw up air is garunteed at early percents, but they can counter the second one. I would watch a rookie's set with pewpewu to learn more.

Another important thing to do is to set personal challenges, like wavedash across final destination 10-20 times without dropping a wavedash, getting 5 up.b walljumps in a row, shbawding 20-30 times, getting consistent upb and cape gimps, etc. This could sound very grindy and tedious, but once u get to like the 4th or 5th up b walljump, ur going to feel a lot of pressure, which can simulate tournament nerves or clutch moments in general.

I may add more, but hope this helps for now.

 

[Luddoj]

Practicing alone is limiting, but not impossible. Plenty of top players practice alone, so it's definitely possible. As of late my bro wants to play more smash 4 than melee, so I find myself practicing alone more often.

Level 1-3 cpus aren't the worst thing to do. Obviously they can't do a lot, but it gives u a sense of how to juggle, chain grab, edguarding, and more. It is limiting, but it's not completely useless. I take a theoretical approach to fighting cpus. See at what percents combos do or don't work.

I'm not amazing at up b walljumping, but as any mario main in melee knows, there's an insane amount of potential to the point where if u can guarantee it to happen every time, u can do some sick **** and will live a lot longer. My best is only 4 in a row, but that's a start.

Treat the cape as your best friend. The cape will never let you down... as long as u don't spam it in the neutral game. I'm not too experienced in the samus matchup, but i wouldn't spam cape or use it too much. That would make your opponent just get a free charge for a charge shot, free grabs, approaches, etc. In the neutral game, it's a really good read tool for punishing projectiles, but don't get carried away. How I mainly use cape is off the edge. Obviously u come back to the stage with it, but it trumps A LOT of recoveries (fox, falco, marth, falcon!). When i fight lvl 1s and they up b, I'll back throw them and cape them to practice my gimps. Even using fireballs to harass them off stage before caping can be good. What if fox or falco side bs? Shield and backthrow endlessly to make them feel that their recovery options are limited, rhus baiting them into getting edgehogged, baired, caped, etc, or fsmash and get a free punish.

Marth can be a pain in the ***, but he's not impossible. Tbh, smash 4 has helped me in this matchup in the sense that it's more read heavy than most matchups. There's a likely chance the marth will have no idea how to juggle u or know what u want to do because of how little mario mains there are. That gives u an advantage. Down throw up air is garunteed at early percents, but they can counter the second one. I would watch a rookie's set with pewpewu to learn more.

Another important thing to do is to set personal challenges, like wavedash across final destination 10-20 times without dropping a wavedash, getting 5 up.b walljumps in a row, shbawding 20-30 times, getting consistent upb and cape gimps, etc. This could sound very grindy and tedious, but once u get to like the 4th or 5th up b walljump, ur going to feel a lot of pressure, which can simulate tournament nerves or clutch moments in general.

I may add more, but hope this helps for now.

I will take into consideration your suggestion about setting personal challenges for each of my training sessions. Also, I heard some people prefer to battle level 7 CPUs, but I didn't catch exactly why.

I definetely need to practice my juggles since I am very bad at it, so that will help as well. Is there any specific character I can choose as an opponent to begin with?

Thanks for the help.

 

[TehGuitarLord]

Interesting that u mention lvl 7, i haven't tried that before. Maybe i will now. I know lvl 9 is horrible because all they do is jab at all of ur approaches lol.

It's best to practice on every character, as each character has a different weight and certain combos work on certain percents. You may think fox and falco have the same weight because they are called fast fallers, but fox has a faster falling speed. Captain falcon probably has the most general weight, but practice everyone.

Same deal goes with chain grabs. Some require down throw, some require up throw, some can't be chaingrabbed, and some require some damage before u can start.

 

[Britex]

Vs Fox: Mario has a strong punish game on spacies. He can u-throw chaingrab from 0 to like 40-50 ish, and can down-throw chaingrab after that altho it's hard to do. He has follow ups on both of these throws (aerials with up, f and d smash with down throw). When it comes for edgeguarding cover the side-b option first. Once fox is forced to firefox it should be easier to edgeguard him. Cape is a good option but it can be slow to come out sometimes. When recovering yourself, Di high and come down with fireballs, be aware of all the options Mario has. Don't approach with nair in neutral, it's too slow and doesn't lead to anything.

Vs Falco: Similar to the fox mu, except harder. Falco hits you very hard and mario struggles with lasers because his oos options are not very good. Punish him hard every opening you get otherwise your chances are slim. Falco's side-b is harder to cover when compared to fox's, because it's faster and meteor you if you get caught by it. However, if Falco is forced to up-b below the stage he should not be able to recover, he has no hitbox so just go to him and aerial him to oblivion.

Vs Falcon: He's fast and he hits you very hard, his aerials are bigger than yours. His recovery is pretty weak overall but his high weight mean he gets many chances to recover, do not mess your edgeguard up. I feel like it's hard to get the chaingrab on Falcon so I think you should just aerial him instead. I don't think this mu is all that bad for Mario, although Falcon probably has a slight edge.

Vs Sheik: This mu seems unfair until you get decent at it. Sheik has easy and strong punishes on Mario, can chaingrab him, needles pwns his recovery and she has a lot more range than him. However, you can chaingrab her back! D-throw works for a while, so make sure to use it to its full potential. Sheik is a more defensive character in general, and she has weaker approaches compared to the rest of the top 8, so don't be scared to throw a few fireballs at her. Most characters punish sheik's recovery in the same fashion; by forcing her to up-b onstage and punishing her landing lag until she's unable to recover. Depending on percent, you can either go for a f-smash, a backthrow or a rising f-air from the ledge to rack up percent. I've seen A rookie get a f-smash after d-throw on her very consistently, so you should watch his videos.

vs Marth, Peach, Puff and Climbers: Don't know enough about these mus yet to help you out, since I'm struggling myself vs these characters.

 

[Luddoj]

Vs Fox: Mario has a strong punish game on spacies. He can u-throw chaingrab from 0 to like 40-50 ish, and can down-throw chaingrab after that altho it's hard to do. He has follow ups on both of these throws (aerials with up, f and d smash with down throw). When it comes for edgeguarding cover the side-b option first. Once fox is forced to firefox it should be easier to edgeguard him. Cape is a good option but it can be slow to come out sometimes. When recovering yourself, Di high and come down with fireballs, be aware of all the options Mario has. Don't approach with nair in neutral, it's too slow and doesn't lead to anything.

Vs Falco: Similar to the fox mu, except harder. Falco hits you very hard and mario struggles with lasers because his oos options are not very good. Punish him hard every opening you get otherwise your chances are slim. Falco's side-b is harder to cover when compared to fox's, because it's faster and meteor you if you get caught by it. However, if Falco is forced to up-b below the stage he should not be able to recover, he has no hitbox so just go to him and aerial him to oblivion.

Vs Falcon: He's fast and he hits you very hard, his aerials are bigger than yours. His recovery is pretty weak overall but his high weight mean he gets many chances to recover, do not mess your edgeguard up. I feel like it's hard to get the chaingrab on Falcon so I think you should just aerial him instead. I don't think this mu is all that bad for Mario, although Falcon probably has a slight edge.

Vs Sheik: This mu seems unfair until you get decent at it. Sheik has easy and strong punishes on Mario, can chaingrab him, needles pwns his recovery and she has a lot more range than him. However, you can chaingrab her back! D-throw works for a while, so make sure to use it to its full potential. Sheik is a more defensive character in general, and she has weaker approaches compared to the rest of the top 8, so don't be scared to throw a few fireballs at her. Most characters punish sheik's recovery in the same fashion; by forcing her to up-b onstage and punishing her landing lag until she's unable to recover. Depending on percent, you can either go for a f-smash, a backthrow or a rising f-air from the ledge to rack up percent. I've seen A rookie get a f-smash after d-throw on her very consistently, so you should watch his videos.

vs Marth, Peach, Puff and Climbers: Don't know enough about these mus yet to help you out, since I'm struggling myself vs these characters.

Thanks for the tips and the useful information. I knew about Fox/Falco and Shiek's vulnerability to chain-grabs beforehand, as it's the main tool I use to add percent without forcing me to face a very tough neutral game against them.

I'll definetely try out all of this the next time I'm facing my friends, as literally each and every one of them mains one of the top tier characters, and they really force me to play near perfect in order to win.