Mafia Setup Reviews

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

So while I was having dinner, I had this epiphany. The epiphany? This thread, of course. Hopefully this doesn't fail miserably.

So basically, this is a thread where you can post open setups, and have other people critique them.

For those of you who don't know what open setups are, open setups are setups that are posted in a mafia game's OP, so everyone knows what the setup is, in contrast to most mafia games, where the setup is usually closed, and not shown until after the game is over.

To start off, I have some open setups that i'm looking for critique on:

Part time jobs:
Town:
5x VTs
1x Odd night tracker
1x Even-Night jailer

Mafia:
1x Odd night roleblocker
1x Even night vanilla cop

Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy:

4x VTs
1x Mafia Traitor (No Kill)
1x Mafia Seeker (No Kill)
1x Independent Serial Killer

(Yeah, it's modified portal)

• If the SK shoots the traitor, he loses his kill.
  
• The seeker can look for the traitor. If he finds the traitor, he will convert the traitor into a mafia goon. If the SK shoots the goon, he will still lose his kill.
  
• In a 1 vs 1 scenario, Sk vs Traitor results in SK win. SK vs Seeker or goon results in mafia win.
  
• Traitor is informed
  
• If the SK shoots the seeker while the seeker finds the traitor in the same night, the traitor will stay a traitor.

NOW WITH CLOSED SETUPS!

If you have a closed setup that you want evaluated, feel free to post here, requesting for people to review it.

 

[ranmaru]

Holy **** good idea man! How about having a review panel that reviews people's setups in a qt or something. (MS does that too)

This would prolly be for closed setups too, and the thread would be good for opens.

Thoughts?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

We already have a panel.

It's the list mods.

Though I can see where you're coming at. Perhaps this thread should become a mafia review thread, with people with closed setups requesting people to evaluate them in private?

I think so.

 

[ranmaru]

Oh you.

Yes, exactly what you said. I think it's easier in a quicktopic in private, or whatever. IM's too just anyway that can make it EZ to see the maf document.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Part time jobs actually looks pretty interesting. I usually hate even/uneven night roles but that way would be pretty interesting.

 

[Swiss]

Hitchikers has a crippled scumteam.

If I understand if the two scum don't initially know each other, and one does't even know he's scum? How is the seeker to pin the traitor of the traitor doesn't know to crumb anything? Explain this more.

Either way needs fixing.

Part-time looks good.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

No, the traitor not only knows he's scum, but he is informed of who the seeker is.

 

[Swiss]

No, the traitor not only knows he's scum, but he is informed of who the seeker is.

So, you think two goons with No Kill would be broken in this setup, so you're limiting their co-ordination till D2/3 (whenever seeker hits)?

I'm just trying to understand your process.

 

[ranmaru]

Also, I guess people who would be good for reviewing would be the MODS of past games. Especially ones that hosted a balanced game/fun game etc.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

So, you think two goons with No Kill would be broken in this setup, so you're limiting their co-ordination till D2/3 (whenever seeker hits)?

I'm just trying to understand your process.

I can see where you're coming at. I made one a traitor to really give the SK more motivation, as he should try and find the seeker before the seeker finds the goon.

See, in portal, if the SK's puppet is doing well, then the SK really doesn't have to worry. In this setup, though, he has to find the traitor, as well as the seeker.

 

[Ramen King]

Oh yeah Ran I forgot to reply to you in the DRRP thread. I don't think we need a panel per se, but I do like idea of peer evaluation for setups rather than putting it all on the mods. I was thinking those who want to have a game ran in the queue just have someone credible evaluate it rather than having Sold/Raz/Marshy have a bunch of setups to evaluate. Definitely think this is a great thread for that.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah that's kool. Doesn't have to be a panel, someone credible like you said. Would be cool to have two people just for diff of opinions, would be cool methinks.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

why does it have to be specifically two people? cant you just pm a member whose opinion you value? i did that with frozen/macman/zv all the time

 

[ranmaru]

Cuz it's cooler this way.

Plus, if you have it through here, you can say that your setup was reviewed by: ramennoodles

So that way you can hope for a balanced game.

But nah I have done that too tho.

 

[ranmaru]

Plus it would be official ;o

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Fun idea but not something we should be using manpower/time on right now.

 

[ranmaru]

Disagree. I would rather play a game that is balanced somewhat. Or at least I would wanna know what kinda game a person is shelling out. (swingy, expiremental, b@st@rd, simple, etc)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I can definitely help you guys with set-up stuff ^_^

 

[Overswarm]

You know what would be cooler than judging open setups?

Judging already played CLOSED setups. Because you'd have evidence as to how they played, how the roles worked, etc., and it actually mimics what we do here. Very few people run open setups here because closed setups are more fun.

If someone just wanted a good setup to steal, they could ask someone who ran good games they liked. If someone wanted advice on their setup, they could again ask someone who ran good games they liked or any of the mods already there for that purpose.

If you want people to learn how to actually make more unique setups, review setups already ran and critique the setup and how it influenced the gameplay.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

You know what would be cooler than judging open setups?

Judging already played CLOSED setups. Because you'd have evidence as to how they played, how the roles worked, etc., and it actually mimics what we do here. Very few people run open setups here because closed setups are more fun.

If someone just wanted a good setup to steal, they could ask someone who ran good games they liked. If someone wanted advice on their setup, they could again ask someone who ran good games they liked or any of the mods already there for that purpose.

If you want people to learn how to actually make more unique setups, review setups already ran and critique the setup and how it influenced the gameplay.

Ding! I'm willing to provide some of my set-ups from games I've ran in the past if anyone would like to listen to them.

 

[Marshmellowman]

just made my first setup in years

anyone down to review? i only want people who never play cuz id need as many heads in on this as possible

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Would be easier to help you if you told us whether it's Marshy or Yedi

 

[Marshmellowman]

its both of us. were more interested in bouncing ideas around cuz the balance is fine

 

[ranmaru]

Depends on the flavor. What will the flavor be? I would be fine with talking to you about it.

Specially if it's a large. Cuz I like smalls better. Unless the large flavor is ****ING AWESOME. then I'll... be on the fence

 

[#HBC | marshy]

the setup and flavor are indeed ballin. i also dont want to potentially lose an active player not that i dont appreciate the offer

 

[ranmaru]

Alright then. Then consider me pre-inned. ;o

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I can talk about it. I'm not gonna join a lot of games in the near future because I'll be moving and I'm in a lot of games atm. If it's gonna start in a while though, then keep it hush.

 

[Marshmellowman]

yeah im thinkin well just have to work it out ourselves in that case. we have literally 11 people ahead of us on the queue so a long time before it gets ran

lol i wanted a review but then i have to keep denying people cuz a bunch of active people i would want in the game volunteered

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

loooool

still gotchu back masheey

 

[ranmaru]

I lo l'd

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

What about me?

It's not like I'm going to be active

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I wanna talk about my Megaman X Setup.
Town:

1 bulletproof
1 one-shot roleblocker
1 cop
1 ****ty broken miller thing that I really ****ed up on (basically think EM disguiser but like..just..yeah.)
1 Vengeful townie
VTs

Indy:

Strongman

Mafia:

Role-cop
Godfather
Goon

Too OP, imo. Also, I tried really hard to base it around Megaman X flavor, my first huge noobie mod mistake.

 

[ranmaru]

Can you state the number of VT's?

What is the premise of your setup? Like what's the gimmick?

Talk to me more about the miller thing. I'm a stranger to EM.

lemme think of the numbers

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Iirc, the person could pick a role to disguise as. That role would be what the rolecop would get if investigated.

Town has it pretty bad. For one, there is only one investigative role, which can only pin half the scum. Bulletproof was pretty useless due to the presence of a strongman. That leaves the disguiser, the one-shot roleblocker, and the vengeful townie. The disguiser and the roleblocker could both easily become VTs (Rolecop dying and using the rolecop), leaving just a vengeful townie, which is pretty useless until lynched. The lack of any real protective roles also hurts town.

Also, remember D.Gray-Man Mafia? Stop lying, because you don't. But anyways, I dug through my PMs and found the original draft for it.


[COLLAPSE="Setup"]

Town:

-sane cop
-Paranoid doctor (sibling)
-VT (sibling)
-Forensic investigator
-Vig
-Permanent Mentee (with final cry)
-Permanent Mentor (cannot select someone else)/assist (with final cry)
-JOAT (sacrifice, kill, track)
-Timekeeper (only real role that I need to describe, as I made it myself. The timekeeper can set the *time* of a night phase back to a previous time. all actions in between the time time is reversed to and when the ability is used do not work unless the action is sent in again. 1-shot ability)/1 shot self doctor

Mafia:

-Ninja hitman (can also appear as not mafia to cops for a night) (safeclaim: sensor)
-Puppeteer (activated by pm'ing the mod the name of someone who is currently voting for the same person as the puppeteer. The puppeteer then gains control of that persons night actions. If the target dies, the puppeteer is revealed to everyone. If the puppeteer is killed before the target, the target gains control of their night actions (safeclaim: miller)
-goon (can visit a person each night. Does nothing, however the visit will appear on investigations) (safeclaim: uninformed gravedigger)

It's a bit crazy, but that's because the flavor lends itself so well to mafia.

[/COLLAPSE]

I don't even know what final cry is anymore.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I wanna talk about my Megaman X Setup.
Town:

1 bulletproof
1 one-shot roleblocker
1 cop
1 ****ty broken miller thing that I really ****ed up on (basically think EM disguiser but like..just..yeah.)
1 Vengeful townie
VTs

Indy:

Strongman

Mafia:

Role-cop
Godfather
Goon

Too OP, imo. Also, I tried really hard to base it around Megaman X flavor, my first huge noobie mod mistake.

Your mafia's really kinda weak, even with the RBer in mind. At best, they can...cop a role. Gives them more direction on their kill I guess? Doesn't really prevent town from doing whatever the hell they want.

Roleblockers aren't ever really a protown role. It's a decent nerf to thrown in for town, but your set-up doesn't really call for it. The side with the most actions per night is town, your mafia has one NA outside of the kill, and it's only a one-shot so the chance of it stopping the indy at all is about 1/11 or so. It gets better if he waits but it's still just one shot.

The thing with using gimmick roles is you need to have a huge understanding of balance and how things will work in order to use them effectively. I can see how it went wrong, but I don't even understand what it was trying to accomplish in the first place, so I can't critique it.

Strongman is OP in general. It's basically saying "here's your pick of the litter, kill anyone you want!" There's no risk involved for any of their targets, they could be ****ing DH and shoot towniest of townies Ryker and that'd be it. The doc couldn't stop it, there's no consequences for hitting that protect, nothing. It's just a free kill. Nothing should ever be free like that in mafia. Nothing. That's too stronk.

The next time you work on a set-up, you should let me watch over your shoulder and give you tips on what to do and stuff.

edit: vengefuls are pretty ****ing dumb in general

Good rule of thumb that I like to use for most of my games: For every killing role present, there is a protective capable of stopping that kill. The only time I would reduce the number of protectives is in the presence of a vigilante.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

they could be ****ing DH and shoot towniest of townies Ryker and that'd be it.

Haters gonna hate

Curious why you would reduce the number of protectives if there was a vig, though.

Also, the ****ty broken miller thing seemed to be a direct counter to the rolecop, nerfing the mafia even more.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Oh yeh, that definitely is a weakass mafia then.

And I guess that's worded badly. Usually I put in an equal number of protectives for the number of killing roles present in the game. So, for example, if I have an SK and a mafia, there's two protectives, usually a doc and some other weaker role like BP, bodyguard, etc., to try to match those kills. It's one way of nerfing them because it reduces their chance of hitting the player they want to hit, providing I don't outright nerf the kill itself. The only time I don't automatically include another protective is in the event that I include a vig. While the other factions are punished simply by ****ing up their kill and especially on a night with a no kill, vigs themselves are punished but the town as a whole is not. The vig goofing and hitting a townie is something that is a detriment to his faction though, so I try not to include a protective to cover the vig because the vig doesn't need to be covered. He's town-aligned as it is.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That's a ****ty rule, imo. You balance so that two kills every night doesn't **** the game up. Doc + other protective can be absolutely devestating to anti-town factions.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

It's worked for me thus far and I've never seen it hurt a game. Usually it's just a doc and a one-shot BP on top of that as a check.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vengeful is a ****ing awesome role -.-