M2k Dash

[BTmoney]

I don't watch or play that much PM but I've never heard anyone talk about ledge dashing by using the M2k jump from the ledge (frankly, it's a better name than "tournament winner"). In melee when you do this jump there, obviously, is a pretty large amount of time where you can't perform any action while you're in the air. These un-actionable frames are nonexistent in PM. So you can M2k into an immediate DJ, aerial etc. but most importantly into an air dodge/waveland.

An immediate benefit is that there is a 0 chance of SD'ing while getting the same effect as a ledge dash if you waveland. If you input the air dodge too soon you just do a normal ledge jump (and that's already better than doing a normal ledge jump in melee because you can still choose an action). And best case/what should happen is you get a pressure-free invincible, safe ledge dash.

Immediate issues:

• I don't know how many frames of ledge invincibility you get in PM, if it changes, ledge mechanics or if it's the same as melee
• Characters have different amounts of M2k jump start up times. I can already see this being "useful" for Marth, you can see you're still invincible when you're no longer in waveland lag and you are standing straight up. But Immediately it doesn't look so useful for Mario. But I could be wrong.

If anyone wants I can make a video of this possibly and marginally useful/less technique that only works below 100%. But it would be nice if someone could determine, via a little framework/TAS, which characters are better off doing this and which characters are better off doing normal ledge dash.


I didn't pitch that positively at all but yeah. Looking at it right now, I see it being useful.
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This is could be good for when you are edge guarding but your opponent recovers high while you remain on the ledge. You don't want to roll because that'd be too slow and you don't want to ledge dash because you don't want to risk the SD. This is pretty easy to do and it's very quick. (If anyone even understands the situation I am describing)
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[Jolteon]

Ledge jumping is very viable in this game, I personally use it a lot for wavelanding.

 

[SpiderMad]

And best case/what should happen is you get a pressure-free invincible, safe ledge dash.

Immediate issues:

• I don't know how many frames of ledge invincibility you get in PM, if it changes, ledge mechanics or if it's the same as melee

I believe it doesn't give any invincibility. Using it to waveland would just warrant you didn't want/need invincibility for it. Better usage I've seen from it is just wave landing onto BF's platforms, but again that's risky.

I think you also wouldn't wanna use this at over 100% or the jump will be bad like the get-up attack

This is Melee's invinc
http://smashboards.com/threads/how-...at-frame-can-you-let-go.334811/#post-15374010 with Link being special.
IIRC P:M has one frame less than Melee, and Melee has one less frame than Brawl comparing specifically when you're able to let go of the ledge (since Brawl actually has a lot more but the ledge grab animation is long as hell).

 

[BTmoney]

You get invincibility lol you can see it (go to training/.25 speed if you want to see). With slightly sloppy wavelands you can see that some characters are invincible while others do not seem to be.

And yes by no means should you do this over 100%, like the OP says.

 

[SpiderMad]

You get invincibility lol you can see it (go to training/.25 speed if you want to see). With slightly sloppy wavelands you can see that some characters are invincible while others do not seem to be.

And yes by no means should you do this over 100%, like the OP says.

From the actual ledge jump? I'm pretty sure you don't. Like if you just press Jump to ledge jump and do nothin, there ain't no sparkle sparkle happenin. Sounds like you're just seeing your air dodge's invincibility before you hit the ground which happens just like any sloppy wavedash would; where as a normal ledge drop DJ waveland still carries I believe your invincibility while you're sliding and all that given you do it fast enough.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I'm 100% confident that Blacktician never claimed ledge jump granted intangibility.

 

[Burnsy]

Spidermad, if you look at in in brawlbox, you'll see that characters do in fact receive a few invulnerability frames at the start of the ledgejump animation.

 

[The_Guide]

More importantly, do those invulnerable frames carry into the very first iasa? Because thats what it seems Blacktician is implying.

 

[BTmoney]

More importantly, do those invulnerable frames carry into the very first iasa? Because thats what it seems Blacktician is implying.

Yes, as far as my eyes tell me. You can see for someone like Marth if you go to training mode/.25 speed/zoom in. By the time you are standing fully upright (in your neutral standing stance) you still flash two or three times.

 

[DMG]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. PM has some slow motion bugs (that also can occur when matches finish and it slows down) and I would not rely on it for something like this.

 

[BTmoney]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. PM has some slow motion bugs (that also can occur when matches finish and it slows down) and I would not rely on it for something like this.

Well thats the entire point of me posting this, to bring more light to it. =]

But that was just for emphasis, if that is not a reliable method you can just do it in a normal game mode at 1x speed.
I mean, it doesn't look too different from how invincible you are when you do a normal ledge dash. All I'm asking is that more people experiment with this.

I just want people to look at it themselves instead of saying silly things (like I'm confusing this with air dodge invincibility, if you're flashing while you're making contact with the ground, it's not air dodge invincibility) lol.

 

[Phaiyte]

What I think you're getting at is the invincible frames from when you grab the ledge? If you jump off the ledge you will still have those frames and they're in fact a core part of my Ganondorf mind game play.

 

[rjgbadger]

hey just learn how to ledgedash like a real man

 

[BTmoney]

hey just learn how to ledgedash like a real man

The point of this is to figure out if there is even a point in doing ledgedashes below 100% with all of or any of the characters. If the end result is the same and one involves you being immune to SD I'm going to pick that one 10/10 times, especially in tournament. I don't think you're being that serious but I'm not sure if everyone is understanding the point of this or if I'm communicating this well.

What I think you're getting at is the invincible frames from when you grab the ledge? If you jump off the ledge you will still have those frames and they're in fact a core part of my Ganondorf mind game play.

Ideally, this would have nothing to do with mind games and instead it would just be a staple get off the ledge option. Generally speaking, imo, mind games only really serve a purpose when you have nothing better to do or nothing guaranteed.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Regardless of invincibility, I'm fairly sure that plain 'ol ledge dashing is significantly faster for every character except perhaps floaties or characters with extremely fast <100% ledgejumps, like Bowser. So the answer is probably yes, ledgedashes are still useful for most if not all of the cast under 100%. This isn't even mentioning characters with extremely fast ledgehop->soft landings like Bowser and dorf, or all the distance and time you lose from the sloppy wavelands required by most character's ledgejumps.