Luma Near vs. Luma Away

[RyanFoolz]

Hey Guys! I have been away for a wile (but I promise I've been still trying to improve like i said i would on this board!) and I've been in the lab with a couple buddies for a bit as of recent (little vacation). After seeing me play and playing against me, with me, etc. we have sparked the discussion about Rosie and her value with Luma close (at default) and with Luma at minimal neutral B distance away, as well as farther. My opinion after playing her since the game came out is that she is more valuable near me almost all of the time because of the damage potential, spacing, approach possibilities, etc. My buddies think she has more potential with Luma at either minimal distance shot out or farther and the meta should be Rosie approaching the gap between where Luma is and the enemy. I figured the best insight would come from all of you since you guys play her more than I do and have many more matches under your belt! Am I missing out not using Luma at distance a lot ( i do in certain situations, just not a ton) or am I making the right decision keeping Luma close and using it do get KOs and more damage? Hope to hear from many of you because I know you guys have had much more experience than us!

Side question: Anyone going to WinterBrawl in Philly Feb 20-22? They added Gears of War 3 (community I'm originally from) so I'm definitely going to see my console friends and I'm going to enter smash! (Hoping I can beat at least one kid hahaha)

 

[Parcheesy]

While keeping the Luma close is easily the safer play, there are definitely some merits to be gained sending it out. Unless you're in a matchup where the opponent has a fairly safe or effortless way to remove an unattended Luma ( Rob laser / Greninja shuriken / pk fire ), any damaged gained by it is so incredibly good because you're risking almost nothing to get it. When you tack on any strings it might start or end, keeping it separate might lead to even more damage than simply hitting twice with every move.

For me, I like to keep it separate until I've been given a reason by the opponent not to. The pressure you can exert with two separate entities is almost always worth it. That's just my line of thought though, as I've seen plenty of Rosalinas find great success without playing the Luma spacing game, and that's fine too; the character can be viably played either way. I'd just recommend learning both for when you find yourself in a situation where keeping it close is a greater liability ( I cannot fight competent Shulk players without sending it out, his relatively safe on shield moves just wreck Luma too easily ).

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I may do a more detailed post later but for now I basically agree with @ Parcheesy 's first paragraph. Some characters just have the tools to effortlessly deal with Luma unless Rosalina keeps it on a very tight leash. Crash Bomber is a specific example that gives me fits since it detonates instantly on Luma and the AOE can tag Rosalina if she's nearby. I believe Luma Warp has some utility here since proper timing can let you sneak it past projectile games. Regarding the second paragraph, I tend to keep Luma attached to Rosalina until I have a reason to separate them. (Edgeguarding is my personal favorite.)

Another question to ask is whether one should recall Luma quickly once it's done its job, or if there's more value in letting it hang around and see if a lucky opportunity for a wombo combo or something crops up.

 

[Parcheesy]

Ooo, on the topic of specific uses of sending it out, I've found monstrous success firing it after an up air juggle ( when I'm forced to return to the ground ). It becomes this amazing no risk / high reward thing because if they DI away from you ( and towards the Luma ), you can whack them with an upair / upsmash for the kill. I mean, what's the worst thing that can happen? If they air dodge, or don't get near it, you simply recall it during a time where they're not putting on any pressure, and time you would have otherwise spent waiting. Win - win.

Generally, I find the cooldown for using the Luma recall absurdly long, so I tend to keep Luma on a fairly long leash, only recalling when it's in a useless position ( generally behind me when the opponent is in front of me, or when it's falling on the outskirts of the stage ). Oh, and I'm awful at Luma edge guarding. Part of it is thinking Rosalina is simply better at it, and the other part is never bothering to give it an honest try. Maybe we can find some time to play a few games Drone, and you can show my alts the power of the Luma edge guard ( oh and I like the new avatar by the way ).

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Edgeguarding with Luma is...tricky. Luma Warp is fast enough that if you know the range, you can basically treat it as a long range surprise attack. Pop Luma out, dair, and recall it right away. Luma Shot is flexible and can be placed anywhere from right on the ledge to basically the edge of the camera view. Mixups include well timed jabs to keep Luma in place a bit longer, or letting it fall a bit before attacking if the spacing isn't quite right. The problem is that Luma only covers a very small range around itself and it's easy to miss with its attacks, but its presence can influence the opponent's recovery trajectory and create opportunities for Rosalina herself. What I sometimes try to do (but inevitably fail at) is leaving Luma just off the ledge and try to hit someone going for the sweetspot. The timing eludes me.

Agreed that sending Luma out when a direct followup isn't possible tends to work well at creating extra pressure. And since I learned that a fully charged Luma Shot makes Luma invincible, I've been starting to use it in For Glory to trump predictable projectile spam and other troublesome hitboxes. Hardly anyone seems to respect it until they get hit by it first. Too bad for them it's a kill move.

On a completely different note, I was in the lab and learned that ftilt > Luma Warp > fsmash is a potential setup on Mario's weight range at 50%ish. Ftilt to Warp isn't a true combo and you can probably DI it if you see it coming, but Warp to fsmash is a combo and it kills a training dummy outright from their spawn position on FD. At high percents ftilt sends them too far, but you can substitute dtilt then.