Luma Extended Bair

[PuzzlerBoy]

Hello! There's this technique I've known about/have been using sparingly for a while (not sure what to call it or if someone's found it already) where, if you wish to back air someone, you can choose to make luma back air a decent amount further than normal to hit them from a safer and potentially less punishable-if-it-doesn't-hit distance. Luma has to be next to rosa (not in "shine state" if I remember correctly).

Vidya:

Spoiler: Icraq's video of other options with extending bair

https://youtu.be/ZY1Wyd05cs0

https://youtu.be/ZY1Wyd05cs0[/spoiler]

How to do it:

- Dash in a direction (toward your opponent, from a distance) until both Rosa and luma are doing the dash animation (luma angles forward a wee bit), luma's in front of you, and you're close enough so that the move will connect (you'll have to test this technique in training mode or whatnot to figure out the proper spacing). This should be easy enough, although you may have to wait a moment before moving on to the next steps if you've just auto canceled an aerial that takes Luma's time, done a tilt/smash, etc. as luma may still be in the end lag of the move or be in an awkward position in relation to rosa.
- Turn around. Stop dashing - don't dash in the opposite direction!
- Short hop immediately. You can move towards your opponent during this time if you want to make sure they don't have much space.
- input back air immediately. I don't use the C-Stick for aerials (yet) but it doesn't matter which way you do it (as long as you can input bair fast enough).

If done correctly, luma shouldn't have a chance to get in front of rosalina like it ought to before it's forced to do it's back air - and since luma is technically behind rosa since you turned around and it's back air is meant to cover about the same distance as her's, luma's will appear to go plenty further than normal. This could be helpful for bopping somebody who's recovering (or camping..) a little above the edge off-stage or hitting someone in hit stun moving away from rosa and a small amount above the stage.

Uses:

- mind gaming (not that I know anything much 'bout that), i.e. you're dashing at someone, they get ready with a shield, you turn away so they might unshield but suddenly you're back airing from a distance that shouldn't hit yet luma slaps their face
- punishing a laggy attack/lack of air dodge or approaching.
- hitting people recovering just above the ledge
- putting luma far behind you for free extended bairs (so long as luma stays behind you/you don't wait too long/you don't use an aerial besides bair)

It can kill at absurdly high percents.

Con(s):

This can be a bit tricky to pull off if you haven't done it before I suppose, and it's fairly limited in terms of vertical capability (at least at first), but

Something that's pretty cool is that after you do this the first time, as long as luma is behind you doing barrel rolls trying to recover from the insanity that is this move (so during it's ending lag animation or whatever), you can actually spam full hop-back airs to do more extended back airs for free as it pulls luma out of the animation so he can back air from his same position again; once you want luma back to normal all you have to do is wait a little over a second and it'll be back in front of you and ready to go.

In terms of names, if someone can come up with a better name than what I got atm lemme know.

So yeah, post thoughts, questions, concerns and discuss - I'll more than likely reply at some point or another but no guarantees on efficiency.
So, hopefully you've learnt something. May the & Luma meta game prosper!

 

[PuzzlerBoy]

Reserved, just in case.

 

[icraq]

i wouldn't worry about naming this anything too complicated, there's many ways you can extend luma actually and bair from a safe distance, i think it would be unnecessary since this is just a RAR

if you would like to restructure this post i'd suggest focusing it on all the methods that can displace luma whlist connected to rosalina. but that's up to you.

some other ways i've found that serve the same purpose over the months:

1. shorthop fast fall autocancel back air away from your opponent, then turn around and short hop back air towards your opponent.

2. the starbit 'desync' discovered way back when, just full hop star bit then back air. when you land jump and back air again to keep luma separated.

3. when rosalina gets hit and luma doesnt you can set this up

4. ledge jump double back air, ledge hop works too.

5. if you short hop fast fall autocancel fair with luma about 4-5 times in a row quickly luma moves further and further behind rosalina, but if you screw up the autocancel luma rebounds back.

i'm guessing there's dozens of ways to do this, . i've used it to set up a wall of pain, which is kinda neat but it's not super reliable because you need to attack at regular intervals so luma doesn't rebound.


Made a quick video, showing what I mentioned in order of my posting, except #3. The video is all messed up and it's being edited now, should be up shortly.

 

[Zonderion]

Welcome to the boards @ P PuzzlerBoy ! Thanks for sharing this technique, especially for those who have not come across it yet. As icraq said, this falls under a normal Reverse Aerial Rush. It is unique to Rosalina and Luma because of how Luma acts. There are a lot of great options to use this move.

Also, your should consider using your c-stick for aerials. An advantage is changing your aerial direction while inputting an attack. It can give you better aerial control which leads to better spacing. Properly spacing a bair can mean the difference of getting punished or not.

 

[PuzzlerBoy]

Thanks @ icraq for the elaboration on the other many potential options for autocancelling bair and other aerials to displace luma. I've gotta play more with full hop-star bits-<whatever>. Although, #1 confused me for a moment - is that the thing where luma ends up bairing while in front of rosa (after she turns)? At the start of the vid you were dairing to bair. Wait.. Never mind, I see it at 0:09.
And thanks for helping clarify this is simply a RAR @ Zonderion (simplifies things a lot - I felt it should be simply called a RAR at first when I was trying to deem it SOMETHING but then I overthought it I suppose )/for the warm welcome :D

In regards to learning that c-stick, I might try and find videos with hands (hopefully that doesn't sound weird lol) so I can see how to properly implement it. I use Y for jumping alone (for now?) so flicking my thumb between the main cluster of buttons and the c-stick sounded a bit daunting to learn - but I'll start figurin out somethin for sure. If someone could PM me anything on that that'd be appreciated, but I digress~

Getting back to the topic at hand.. Something I really love about this is it doesn't really require much set-up (although that can be argued I guess since you need some space) - you don't have to displace luma with jabs or auto cancel aerials beforehand (both of which are still very useful for other displacements, obviously, but they can take some time which is always of the essence). I'll definitely mention this once I get around to editing the thread, and I'll add some formatting for prettiness (since I'll not be posting with my phone like an imbecile) and such which means I can put Icraq's and other vids in there for demonstration.

So, to move discussion forward - anybody have video(s) with gameplay showing this (or something like it) being used against people? YT vids are mine and everyones' favorite (even if you don't know how to format the URL with a start and maybe end time, although it is a pretty easy and cool/fun skill); Twitch segments are alright too but if they could be a highlight or, if they're part of a past broadcast, get thrown on a quick (unlisted?) YT vid so they don't expire, that'd be nicer (I can do it too when I have time I suppose but no promises). I think I tried to tell @AceStarThe3rd (second best rosa from what I've seen but I'm biased..? - as he's one of the reasons I'm here) about this so he might try it out, but it was in a twitch chat, so he more than likely might not've seen it despite nabbing his attention for a brief moment; or he might've known about it and considered it common knowledge; or something else (more than likely one of the former two, either way is understandable/fine) Lastly, I've(/I'm, if you're here within like a minute of me posting this reply) put(ting) up a poll real quick asking if you want me to make a video showing this or if I shouldn't bother - I do have a capture card but it's sorta poor quality in relation to what most people got (and by what most people got I mean the few guys with that HD CatMaster Elgato Supreme Composite-Core 1337p multimedia video capture card... :4kappa:

edit: main post redone!

 

[WhiteMageBD]

To add to all this, I learned from Dabuz that you can use this tech with her n-air as well