Luigi's Position On The Tier List

[GreenFlame]

Just gonna copy-paste my post in the other thread now.

Luigi has always been like that. It's how the character works.

It's hard for him to get in, but once he's in he's an absolute beast.

Thus characters that can keep him OUT can shut him down. It's how it's always worked for him. What it means is that he will always have a few match-ups that are terrible for him on characters that zone him out. But he's designed to get past a lot of his weakness with mindgames and unpredictability.

 

[hey_there]

As long as you avoid FD, the only character that can keep Luigi out forever is Villager (though a well-played Duck Hunt and Pac-Man can also be difficult to get in on). His mobility problems are exacerbated on FD, but on smaller stages it's not as big of an issue. Specifically, Halberd, Smashville, and especially Battlefield are great stages because they keep the fighting close.

Luigi's mobility is obviously his biggest weakness and as players looking to improve, develop his metagame, and ultimately win tournaments, we have to find ways to mitigate his weakness and play to his strengths. Personally, I've been trying to incorporate perfect pivoting into my game and PP -> utilt has been great. JC usmash is great too, and very useful when reversed. Bair has more range than I think you're giving it credit for and it can really put pressure on an opponent. Fireballs cover his approach, too. Crawling is something Luigi can do that I currently believe is underappreciated and underexplored. And of course, there's the classic approach of simply powershielding as you walk.

Luigi, like every other character, requires skill to get past his weakness in order to abuse his strengths. But damn, he is amazing once he gets in.

 

[TriTails]

Yeah, but I feel like, his mobility will be forever an issue. We need to cook up some Weegee-only mobility-booster tech somehow. Though, I have a 3DS so I dunno if I can even try... Not even a good player lol.

 

[Yonder]

Yeah, but I feel like, his mobility will be forever an issue. We need to cook up some Weegee-only mobility-booster tech somehow. Though, I have a 3DS so I dunno if I can even try... Not even a good player lol.

Well timed cyclones.

Or dash. His dash is faster in this game and from what I've seen, it lets him approach fast enough. Luigi needs to approach from the ground in this game I think, then transition to the air when needed. His ground game is solid enough to not leave him too threatened on the ground.

 

[TriTails]

Yeah, but chasing someone like Jigglypuff is a pain in the butt.

Still baffles me why Luigi is slower than Mario despite posessing longer legs.

 

[GreenFlame]

Yeah, but chasing someone like Jigglypuff is a pain in the butt.

Still baffles me why Luigi is slower than Mario despite posessing longer legs.

Pretty sure that traditionally in Mario games (namely the Galaxy games) Luigi runs faster than Mario. I don't know what's up with being slower in Smash.

 

[TriTails]

Pretty sure that traditionally in Mario games (namely the Galaxy games) Luigi runs faster than Mario. I don't know what's up with being slower in Smash.

Mario & Luigi series had Mario faster, so I think it's a reference to that (probably just to make Luigi attack after Mario lol).

Though, in that series, Mario is stronger, while Luigi had better health and defense.

Converting it to Smash program.
Health and Defense: Weight
Speed: Obviously mobility
Power: Damage output

Luigi is lighter than Mario, but posseing better power but is slower.

I don't get on how the references are getting mixed up like this.

 

[sims796]

Actually, in Super Mario World for the GBA, Mario was faster, while Luigi had the mad hops, among other differences.

 

[GreenFlame]

Yeah one thing that has never changed is Luigi jumping higher than Mario at least. It's always been that way.

Edit: Just did some more reading, and apparently Luigi ran slower than Mario in older titles and Super Mario 64 DS, but in the Galaxy series he runs faster but with less acceleration and traction and he jumps higher.

 

[Yonder]

So did anyone's thoughts on Luigi's tier list position change after Apex? Should he be higher for abundance of players? Or lower for only breaking top 16?

 

[Luigi#1]

So did anyone's thoughts on Luigi's tier list position change after Apex? Should he be higher for abundance of players? Or lower for only breaking top 16?

Accounting for both, no change.

 

[Space Stranger]

I'd say, despite his nerfs with his tornado recovery, is among the top 15 for his amazing grabs and combo ability. His fireballs are good at stopping opponents in their tracks and his Nair is perfect for combo setups.

 

[Chri$tian Is @wesome]

Okay let's go back to before his big nerf...

I think Luigi was 4th in the game under Sheik, ZSS, and Rosalina.

Now as of 1.1.4 I think he is at #18.

 

[Yonder]

Okay let's go back to before his big nerf...

I think Luigi was 4th in the game under Sheik, ZSS, and Rosalina.

Now as of 1.1.4 I think he is at #18.

Luigi was never, ever 4th pre patch. He was top 10 arguably. People just didn't know how to stuff his approach or exploit his weaknesses enough. Even if he wasn't nerfed, Cloud and Bayo would have been above him.

 

[Mileo279]

Luigi was never, ever 4th pre patch. He was top 10 arguably. People just didn't know how to stuff his approach or exploit his weaknesses enough. Even if he wasn't nerfed, Cloud and Bayo would have been above him.

Yeah right we were way out of cloud and bayonettas league top 5 guaranteed all the matchup than are 55 45 were 60 and we could handle sheik way better and even ZeRo said we top 4 in his tier video before the patch

 

[TriTails]

Top 5

Lost to the top 3, whom one of them beat Luigi pretty hard. Then proceeded to lose to random high tiers and even going even against Samus, Zelda, and lost to Little Mac.

Cloud and Bayonetta has more BS than what we did pre-patch. We could kill people at 90 to 100% with D-throw B-air. Cloud has this Limit camping that unlocks a 19% transcendent projectile that can't be prefect shielded, uber Down-B and improves his mobility coupled with stuffs like N-air and long sword reach. Bayo just need one read to WT and you're losing your stock with fully charged U-smash. And a WT'd Luigi jab that has WKB for crying out loud can lead to double U-smash to U-air.

 

[Yonder]

Yeah right we were way out of cloud and bayonettas league top 5 guaranteed all the matchup than are 55 45 were 60 and we could handle sheik way better and even ZeRo said we top 4 in his tier video before the patch

Nope, Cloud and Bayo are faster mobility wise which is critical in the current metagame. Sheik was just as hard before, hoohaanado never worked on her. Zero is not always right.

 

[Mileo279]

Nope, Cloud and Bayo are faster mobility wise which is critical in the current metagame. Sheik was just as hard before, hoohaanado never worked on her. Zero is not always right.

First you would no better than ZeRo? Second Ryu is top 4 on the tier list so mobility doesn't mean everything also what about Ness huh these are top characters will lackluster mobility also clouds mobility isn't really great

 

[Yonder]

First you would no better than ZeRo? Second Ryu is top 4 on the tier list so mobility doesn't mean everything also what about Ness huh these are top characters will lackluster mobility also clouds mobility isn't really great

Zero is fallable, remember Bayonetta? Called her top 20 and changed his mind the next day to maybe the best in game. He is a good player, but doesn't know the most about every single character, the respective mains know more. Ryu is also a bit overrated, he hasn't shown the tourney results yet. He has cancelled down b for mobility purposes anyways. Ness has a kill throw that actually works on everyone (Luigi's cyclone id not work on fast fallers). And Cloud really isxthat fast, both mobility and frame data wise.

 

[Mileo279]

Ok I understand what your saying but we'll never truly know so let's just move him forward where almost everyone agrees luigi top 10 hopefully

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

Luigi is definitely not Top 10 in the current patch.

 

[Tomazzz]

Mid 20s at best

 

[TriTails]

At this point I'm not even convinced he is in the upper mid tier. I rarely ever see Luigi in Top 8 of tourneys (With few notable names, mind you) anymore. Losing the D-throw + stuffs had proved to be quite detrimental as, while players have long adapted, you can't deny the situation where Luigi kind of stuggle to kill would have been far different had Luigi have his safe kill setups.

That said, pre-patch down throw was bonkers and quite toxic to low level players. Who wants a character that outbox nearly everything to kill you from a safe F8 move at 110%? Nah. IMO, they just need to buff Luigi's airspeed at this point. His aerials won't really go bonkers anymore if he gained better speed tbh.