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Luigi Needs Help!

TANK64

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
1,886
Location
Training Mode

So I've been trying to get really good with Luigi. I want to have a really really badass Luigi.
Only thing is- I have a hard time against decent players, and I get completely ***** by
good players (*cough* Frogles, Nintendude *cough*). I even do far better with characters
I play less. In short- I need help. I know I need to work on approach, because I play
everybody too aggressive. (I am working on that)

I was wondering what else?
Does anyone have any Luigi advice?
Could any Luigi mains give tips on match-ups?
Does anyone even main Luigi?

I can combo fine, and usually get a shied break per game on defensive players. Why is my Luigi still losing?
 

MiketheMike

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
211
I usually just watch various luigi's off youtube. I uploaded a couple luigi videos, you can watch them a few threads below in "Starting to Upload Vids" thread.

What do you have trouble with specifically? Just remember one thing, his head bonks will counter most spikes, like Ness's spike for instance, and most Dair attacks. Also, one good combo is down drill + up smash (the one that makes the beautiful bing sound). But you gotta be sure to z tech after the drill.

Also some fireballs off the wall works as well. IF you fireball towards your enemy and then quickly turn around and fireball off the wall, they'll get hit almost instantly with 2 fireballs.
 

DMoogle

A$
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
2,366
Location
Northern VA, USA
Isai uploaded like 10 matches a couple of months ago vs. Tigerbombz where he (Isai) just uses Luigi. Watch them all multiple times and study every move he makes.
 

TANK64

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
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Isai uploaded like 10 matches a couple of months ago vs. Tigerbombz where he (Isai) just uses Luigi. Watch them all multiple times and study every move he makes.
Yea, thanks. Looking over those again, and I realize I have to speed up.....everything. lol
I'm taking some serious notes, but I'm not done looking at them all. Thanks again tho.
 

Daedatheus

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
1,137
Location
Toronto & Kingston, Ontario
Listen man, Luigi is quite difficult to be ****-quality with.

This may sound like a cop-out answer, but it's absolutely true:
The fastest way to get good with Luigi is to play good Luigis. Learn from what they do. Watching videos is one thing, but to play actual good Luigis will help not only kill your Weegee's bad habits but also implement new ones that you may have never thought of.

Also remember that stuff like mindgames and spacing become better with RAW experience, so you can't instantly be pro with any character after reading a few "tips."

Practicing stuff in training mode like COMBOS and FAST-FALLED AERIALS ON POPULAR STAGES (this is surprisingly useful, as one example try doing FF nairs and uairs off the right ledge into the rapetent area in Hyrule) will help you gain a greater control of Luigi and make your hits more devastating if you can combo even better with him.

All of this said, Luigi is a lot of fun to play even if he has his serious disadvantages, and getting good with him will be extremely rewarding.

Good luck.
 

MiketheMike

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
211
Listen man, Luigi is quite difficult to be ****-quality with.

This may sound like a cop-out answer, but it's absolutely true:
The fastest way to get good with Luigi is to play good Luigis. Learn from what they do. Watching videos is one thing, but to play actual good Luigis will help not only kill your Weegee's bad habits but also implement new ones that you may have never thought of.

Also remember that stuff like mindgames and spacing become better with RAW experience, so you can't instantly be pro with any character after reading a few "tips."

Practicing stuff in training mode like COMBOS and FAST-FALLED AERIALS ON POPULAR STAGES (this is surprisingly useful, as one example try doing FF nairs and uairs off the right ledge into the rapetent area in Hyrule) will help you gain a greater control of Luigi and make your hits more devastating if you can combo even better with him.

All of this said, Luigi is a lot of fun to play even if he has his serious disadvantages, and getting good with him will be extremely rewarding.

Good luck.
Everything he said ^^^^^
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,337
Location
Sayonara Memories
D-Tilt is his coolest move.

But seriously, some things to keep in mind are Up-B out of shield (keep on the lookout, there are some opportunities), Down-B as a combo escape and not always using those two as finishers, like some people seem to try and do. Just basic stuff to keep in mind.

Also, rushing Luigi = suicidal...take it slow and wait for an opening. My Luigi isn't good, but the good Luigis (or passable ones) I play implement lots and lots of baiting.
 

TANK64

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
1,886
Location
Training Mode
Listen man, Luigi is quite difficult to be ****-quality with.

This may sound like a cop-out answer, but it's absolutely true:
The fastest way to get good with Luigi is to play good Luigis. Learn from what they do. Watching videos is one thing, but to play actual good Luigis will help not only kill your Weegee's bad habits but also implement new ones that you may have never thought of.

Also remember that stuff like mindgames and spacing become better with RAW experience, so you can't instantly be pro with any character after reading a few "tips."

Practicing stuff in training mode like COMBOS and FAST-FALLED AERIALS ON POPULAR STAGES (this is surprisingly useful, as one example try doing FF nairs and uairs off the right ledge into the rapetent area in Hyrule) will help you gain a greater control of Luigi and make your hits more devastating if you can combo even better with him.

All of this said, Luigi is a lot of fun to play even if he has his serious disadvantages, and getting good with him will be extremely rewarding.

Good luck.
****, this is why dead is legit. Definitely will do tho.

and thanks, to everyone else too, for the input.
 

NixxxoN

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
3,726
Location
Barcelona
Yeah I so agree with Daed.
Luigi is SLOW in horizontal speed but hes good on vertical speed. So you really need to master the fast falled attack techniques, becuase you really need them. fastfalled dair to utilt or ff dair to uair are the most common combo starters. also you can use fastfalled uair.
You will also need some mindgames with the fireballs, and use down+b to break combos
 

DMoogle

A$
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Jan 28, 2008
Messages
2,366
Location
Northern VA, USA
Yeah I so agree with Daed.
Luigi is SLOW in horizontal speed but hes good on vertical speed. So you really need to master the fast falled attack techniques, becuase you really need them. fastfalled dair to utilt or ff dair to uair are the most common combo starters. also you can use fastfalled uair.
You will also need some mindgames with the fireballs, and use down+b to break combos
Fastfalled f-air is best for defense, especially against characters that don't have very fast ground running speed. Be careful with u-tilt. It has a long cooldown time, so if you hit your opponent at low percentages the hitstun won't be long enough to keep them from counterattacking. At those low percentages, try something else that won't leave you open, like a grab or possibly an upsmash (have to be careful with that too).
 

MiketheMike

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
211
Just fireball as much as you and can down drill too. Heck even tapping b and getting those punches out will do. Luigis one of those characters you gotta use light moves in order to get into the harsh moves. His u-tilt and even his head bonk are powerful and very useful but are death traps too if you miss time it or as DMoogle mentioned, hit them with low %. He requires patience
 

TANK64

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
1,886
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Training Mode
Tank you been playin online under a secret name or somethin?
lol, naw. I meant to make this thread over a week ago. I haven't been online in a bit. But I consistently log on as TANK now lol. School has been kicking my a$$. Although I should be online more, now that midterms are over.

Usually when I log on, all the cool kids are already in games :ohwell:.
 

blaze3927

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
832
Location
Melbourne
:O his dash attack is awesome! it can lead into a dtilt then striaght into uair/upb/down b etc
shame on you!
 

Daedatheus

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
1,137
Location
Toronto & Kingston, Ontario
His dash attack is awesooooooome!
@TANK:
Luigi's dash attack can be useful for stopping enemies at ledges, such as recovering enemies or enemies jumping up from the rapetent area of Hyrule. Weak, but multiple fast hits, sending your opponent away. It won't kill or combo but it's a good long poke.

His u-tilt and even his head bonk are powerful and very useful but are death traps too if you miss time it or as DMoogle mentioned, hit them with low %. He requires patience
Indeed, this is a good thing note as well.

Luigi's approach game is crap because of his slow aerial speed, and he has trouble comboing from zero percent. What you need to do often is build a little damage on your opponent with safer move choices before attempting to combo to death. The great thing is that most characters are guaranteed to die if hit with Luigi's uair at mid to high percentages, since it almost always leads to more uairs and and an up+b or down+b.

Don't spam down+b all the time if you're being combo'd - good players will read that you're going to do this, will bait it out, then punish hard. Knowing when to use it will come with that split-second judgment only experience can bring. Nair also breaks combos and up+B can absolutely **** someone who combos you wrong. For one example, if you just bounced off a wall (giving you brief invincibility frames and lowering stuntime), often you can wait for them to get close to you again then just up+b them. You see this often in Luigi dittos actually, Luigi#1 will be comboing Luigi#2 with uairs, when suddenly Luigi#2 will up+b kill Luigi #1. (There is no justice!) Using up+b out of shield is quite powerful too...

...which brings me to my next point. Luigi's traction is the lowest in the game, and as such shield pressuring him is nearly impossible unless he's caught in a corner since he slides away so much. Keep this in mind because when on a platform, you can very often play this to your advantage - opponent hits your shield, you slide off the platform, you retaliate and punish. Like anything don't abuse this, or it will get predictable.

Luigi's edgeguarding is pretty good too because his vertical recovery is incredible. Be creative. Stuff like 2 x dair, when spaced properly on a recovering Link's head or something, can take a stock from very low percents.

A few extra tidbits that can help you out:

- Dair -> uair -> up+b can break shields most of the time.

- If your opponent has a returning projectile (IE bouncing fireball or boomerang) or you're in a teams match, Luigi's bthrow will hit the projectiles and other opponents on either side of you with the opponent you're bthrowing.

- Don't use down+b close to the ledge for recovery, use it away from the ledge and BEFORE your second jump. Sometimes you won't have a choice, but when you do, don't leave yourself vulnerable with it.

- Luigi's roll is very fast compared to most characters. Dodging stuff with his roll and countering with fast stuff like a grab or usmash is something you will even see top players do.

- Luigi can duck VERY low, useful for dodging! As one example, if Falcon tries to bair Luigi on level ground, he will not be able to hit a ducking Luigi. Counter quickly though!

- Luigi's jab can be canceled into a grab, just like Mario. Hit A then R quickly in succession and it'll work. Some characters will have too much "initial stun" from the jab to be grabbed, but it works great on shields.

- If you're too low to make it with Weegee's up+b and you're out of jumps, up+b and point the joystick in the opposite direction you want to go but immediately release the joystick. You'll do his extended/vertical up+b which gives you a lot more vertical range. Practice this on Hyrule by going under the first platform, if done right, you'll make it all the way to the second one from a grounded up+b.

- Weegee's up+b has terrible knockback if you don't sweetspot it on your opponent, so you should almost always go for the ledge when recovering with it. If you're going to be ledgehogged, that's a different story. If you can edgecancel it reliably, mix it up by aiming for platforms every once in a while.

Hope this helps, TANK! Also if you have AIM or MSN and want to play, I don't think we've played before. We should.

Just as a note, I'm building a doc called "Smash64: Master Theory" and it has more stuff like this - basically a guide of every little subtlety and AT that's in use in competitive play that's written nowhere else. I haven't worked on it in a while but when Weegee's section is done I'll send it to you :)
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
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Sayonara Memories
Listen to everything he said, it's all very correct. Another thing, is Luigi hits a Samus/Link with a weak Up-B (the single coin) while they're off the edge, it can KO them, as they can't turn around with their recoveries. Useful in low-tier matches.

I'm waiting for your little guide, Daedatheus. Replace the old Terms/AT thread already.
 

TANK64

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
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@ Daed:

....Ok:crazy:
j/k, I appreciate that more than informative response. I'll hit you up; we do need to play.

@CheeseBall

Sometimes I kill Links like that on accident. lol I'm like "opps- your dead."
Should probably start doing in on purpose. :laugh:
 

Skrlx

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
2,673
@TANK:
Luigi's dash attack can be useful for stopping enemies at ledges, such as recovering enemies or enemies jumping up from the rapetent area of Hyrule. Weak, but multiple fast hits, sending your opponent away. It won't kill or combo but it's a good long poke.
Being a Luigi player I can agree with this but Luigi's dash attack animation is too long imo.
For example you can dash attack a player but it doesn't have enough hitstun to continue attacking. There's like half a second of vulnerability because the dash attack animation ending too slow and not enough hitstun for you to attack right out of it. For example if you have high % and you dash attack Fox; Fox would have enough time to up smash you.

It would be useful in a double Luigi team though. One Luigi can dash attack knocking the opponent a bit back while the other Luigi is in the back to finish the blow with his up b PING
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
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Samus can use neutral B to turn around, Link will already be dead before it even matters :laugh:
Pretty rare to see it work perfectly after a coin spike - Samus is forced to drop a little, and Luigi should be able to grab the edge with said attack anyway. But yeah, it always works on Link :\

Which sucks because it kills my Link a lot...

Another thing I see used well, D-Air > N-Air > techchase (Up-B is fun) at low damage is a nice little move a friend of mine likes to throw out in 2v2 (because approach is less of a hassle there). It should work in 1v1 just as well if you can get it off.
 
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