Luigi is 10th Tier?

[SuperLuigi9624]

I don't understand how Luigi is low tier.

*He has a great Drill-Kick-To-Fire-Jump-Punch combo that can do a max of 49% damage and kill on the second time.
*I like his aerial game. It gives me a lot of time for a noob like me to think about my attacks
*He has good throws.
*His attacks are quick and powerful.
*His Luigi Cyclone has good damage and better knockback and has almost no startup frames or whatever they're called.
*With all these advantages, he's a Medium-Low weight, making him a pain to kill (for some characters)
*His taunt can Meteor Smash
*Fast, powerful and high-range forward smash
*Good combos
*Can easily kill people with his fireballs by edgeguarding (spam fireballs, when they recover, you'll hit them and they'll fall helpless to their death!) Even if they manage to come back, that's why his drill kick exists!

But the biggest thing I don't get is...

His Donkey Kong matchup.

50% 50%?!

Donkey Kong is huge! Almost anything can hit him! Things Luigi can do to stop him:

*Fireball Barrages. He's too slow to make it out of the wall of fire and survive!
*Easy drill kick to FJP (Fire Jump Punch) combo target!
*Fireball recovery stopping. He doesn't get enough upward distance to avoid it!
*Too slow to catch him!
*Fire Jump Punch can lead to COMBOS thanks to him being so slow.
*And hundreds more! Seriously, thousands, even!

Seriously?
10th Tier?!
Luigi is awesome!

SuperLuigi, out.

 

[asianaussie]

this is almost refreshing, tbh

tier level is for high-level play, at lower levels luigi is mid-high tier and dk is usually ***

 

[The Star King]

because I said so

 

[Battlecow]

Wait, the pimp kick meteors? There are meteors in 64? Why did no one inform me?

 

[B Link]

he's good if and only if you know how to use him

 

[asianaussie]

uh, we're not talking about ness here

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

all of his moves can be out prioritized easily along with a below average approach game, play mario kirby

 

[UGS.Android]

Armada make Pit much better in Project M. Maybe you should ask Armada? XD

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I'll give some actual srs input as everyone else is being a jerk

Spoiler

(as in I'll be less jerkish )

I don't understand how Luigi is low tier.

*He has a great Drill-Kick-To-Fire-Jump-Punch combo that can do a max of 49% damage and kill on the second time.
There is a thing in this game called Smash DI. You can Smash DI to get out of most drill combos. Luigi (sadly) loses one of his main tools due to Smash DI.

*I like his aerial game. It gives me a lot of time for a noob like me to think about my attacks.

The reason why Luigi is bad is due to his slow aerial game. Having floaty moves makes it so they are easy to react to and makes it so Luigi has bad shield pressure. It's the same reason why Samus in many ways is bad (and DK is better in some ways)

*He has good throws. They do good damage but they do not really combo into anything. The only use is gimps so on Dreamland/DL, they are kinda useful

*His attacks are quick and powerful. You are right that they are powerful but they are not exactly quick. This game is about combos and his moves might do good damage but they simply don't combo well.

*His Luigi Cyclone has good damage and better knockback and has almost no startup frames or whatever they're called.

This is right. His Luigi Cyclone is actually a very good move. It is a good move to use after up aerial/u-air. It isn't exactly quick enough to use Out of Shield/OoS but yes, it is good.

*With all these advantages, he's a Medium-Low weight, making him a pain to kill (for some characters)

Nothing much I can say here. Luigi is kinda strange to combo but it is easy with some characters simply since Luigi has bad downwards priority so upward strings are kinda easy though I can't argue with you too much since outside of Falcon, Yoshi and Pikachu, I do find Luigi to be difficult to combo.
*His taunt can Meteor Smash

Too slow, not powerful enough. Maybe yu are thinking of the

Spoiler

Barlw

Luigi version?

*Fast, powerful and high-range forward smash

His F-smash does have good power but it's range is deceptively small. It is also very hard to combo into.

*Good combos

Actually, his combos are some of the weakest due to being able to Smash DI d-airs. He actually has some of the worst combos vs. Fast fallers like Falcon or Fox which don't help either.

*Can easily kill people with his fireballs by edgeguarding (spam fireballs, when they recover, you'll hit them and they'll fall helpless to their death!) Even if they manage to come back, that's why his drill kick exists!

His edgeguarding is good with drills but his fireballs have low priority (other moves easily overpower it,) and are very slow so they are pretty easy to dodge Also, basically every character in Smash 64 has both a bad recovery (with some exceptions) and a very good edgeguard tool and most are better than Luigi (also with some exceptions)


But the biggest thing I don't get is...

His Donkey Kong matchup.

50% 50%?!

Donkey Kong is huge! Almost anything can hit him! Things Luigi can do to stop him:

*Fireball Barrages. He's too slow to make it out of the wall of fire and survive!

As said before, Fireballs have low priority. DK can b-air or n-air fireballs among other moves. It isn't that useful to be honest.

*Easy drill kick to FJP (Fire Jump Punch) combo target!

DK does have a harder time Smash DI'ng due to his larger well figure and that is a weakness but it is still possible. It is also much easier to DI out at higher percents so at killing percents, DK can and punish the laggy up b.

*Fireball recovery stopping. He doesn't get enough upward distance to avoid it!

Luigi's fireball is outprioritized by DK's Up B. His d-air is however very good vs. DK if timed right. DK can also edgeguard Luigi very easily due to Up B as well or with back air/b-air.

*Too slow to catch him!

Luigi's floatiness makes it so DK can chase with b-airs and with u-air. Luigi has bad downwards priority so DK actually has an easier time catching Luigi than many other characters like Falcon, Mario, Kirby, etc.

*Fire Jump Punch can lead to COMBOS thanks to him being so slow.

At incredibly low percents, yes. But it isn't useful past 20 percent or so and generally you wouldn't go for an Up B before that because you are asking for a giant punish.

*And hundreds more! Seriously, thousands, even!

DK has some of the easier combos to giant punch vs Floaties. DK does well vs. Floaty characters and basically only floaty characters. That is why this matchup is pretty even. Luigi has some interesting combos but it is even as stated.

Seriously?
10th Tier?!
Luigi is awesome!

SuperLuigi, out.

Luigi is Mario with bad priority, a floaty jump that makes shield pressure difficult, and a much worse projectile but with one of the best vertical killing power due to up air strings and up b/down b being so good
That is why Luigi is at this tier.

KoRo, over and out.

 

[ballin4life]

this is almost refreshing, tbh

tier level is for high-level play, at lower levels luigi is mid-high tier and dk is usually ***

how is this refreshing when it's common enough that you put a section in the smash index about it?

 

[cmu6eh]

Is any 1% damage move with a weak knockback considered a meteor smash?

 

[asianaussie]

how is this refreshing when it's common enough that you put a section in the smash index about it?

because it's luigi and not ness, duh

 

[SuperLuigi9624]

I'll give some actual srs input as everyone else is being a jerk

Spoiler

(as in I'll be less jerkish )

Luigi is Mario with bad priority, a floaty jump that makes shield pressure difficult, and a much worse projectile but with one of the best vertical killing power due to up air strings and up b/down b being so good
That is why Luigi is at this tier.

KoRo, over and out.

I'll be honest this is the best answer I could have asked for. Seriously.

However, due to my lack of immediate friends a no online support (obviously), I always tend to fight CPU's, who don't know ANYTHING about Super Smash Bros. 64. I'm talking about my experience not fighting other people, but the (cougheasycough) level 9 cpu's. Therefore, it gives me no need to learn cool glitches. (That was the best word I could come up with, I know they aren't really glitches)

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

no problem, best way to get into this game now (unless you live in Cali, lol) is to play online, see the index.

 

[andrewajt62]

Luigi is okay but keep in mind tiers are for the perfect play (which is just really in theory). a lot of things that luigi can do can be countered (i.e really good DI out of his drill). Tiers are less relevant in 64 compared to the other games though

 

[ballin4life]

Tiers are not for "perfect" play. They're for "high level" aka "really really good" play. They are not supposed to be "only in theory".

 

[M!nt]

you shouldn't really be talking about tiers if all you play is just cpus.

 

[ballin4life]

you shouldn't really be talking about tiers if all you play is just cpus.

ok i'll stop talking then

 

[B Link]

Luigi is okay but keep in mind tiers are for the perfect play (which is just really in theory). a lot of things that luigi can do can be countered (i.e really good DI out of his drill). Tiers are less relevant in 64 compared to the other games though

^Andrew knows what he's talkin about.

Tiers are only for TAS fights n00bz.

 

[SuperLuigi9624]

Thanks for all the help, guys. (Except for you guys talking about Ness not Luigi )

I'm really really good with Luigi, so you, Mr. Acouplepostsaboveme, thanks.

Also, after seeing peeps's custom tier list, I'm seeing Luigi is high on many tier lists, so, SmashBoards... (I think they made the tier list)

SUCK IT UP AND PUT THE COWARD HIGHER ON THE LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIST.

 

[Yobolight]

Sorry to say this, but IMO if Luigi were to move anywhere on the tier list it would be to below Samus.

Luigi just has so many secret, not-so-secret, and blatant weaknesses.

 

[asianaussie]

Also, after seeing peeps's custom tier list, I'm seeing Luigi is high on many tier lists, so, SmashBoards... (I think they made the tier list)

SUCK IT UP AND PUT THE COWARD HIGHER ON THE LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIST.

those aren't custom tier lists those are 'who am i able to not suck with' lists

and if there are custom tier lists where luigi isn't near the bottom, then you're either looking at A$'s list or a noob's list

on the plus side, he's a baller in project M

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

those aren't custom tier lists those are 'who am i able to not suck with' lists

and if there are custom tier lists where luigi isn't near the bottom, then you're either looking at A$'s list or a noob's list

on the plus side, he's a baller in project M

This * 50

I kinda agree with Yobo also, my issue is that Samus still has no good matchups and Luigi wins in that matchup

 

[Yobolight]

I kinda agree with Yobo also, my issue is that Samus still has no good matchups and Luigi wins in that matchup

Luigi has a few choice matchups but against most character Samus is the better choice relatively.

 

[Pooncahontas]

Is any 1% damage move with a weak knockback considered a meteor smash?

Not sure if serious, but no, meteor smash is a Melee term.

Also, does anyone know if his fireballs give him extra horizontal recovery like Mario's do?

 

[prisonchild]

Not sure if serious, but no, meteor smash is a Melee term.

Also, does anyone know if his fireballs give him extra horizontal recovery like Mario's do?

i'm pretty sure they do, i think the general rule is any fair will give a player a little more momentum and stuff like fireballs, pound, falcon punch, etc. gives you even more

 

[cmu6eh]

I was being facetious.

 

[SuperLuigi9624]

To be honest, I'm an Anti-Tierist. I don't believe in tiers. No person is just as good as a game as another person. And Tier Lists don't believe that and thinks that everyone's equally matched.

What if I'm really good with . (and I am, apparently. Thanks B Link.) and I'm fighting a pretty crappy ? I'd win. And is a lower tier.

WHOA WT- Yup.

IMO, Tier Lists suck and is AWESOME.

 

[C.SDK]

No, it's just that -- you played a crappy Pikachu and an equally as crappy player. (after all, the player controls the character.) Play against Isai's Pikachu and you'll get JV 5 stocked. Tiers do exist whether you like them or not. I believe they exist, but that does not stop me from picking up low tiers and owning people.

For example, I was playing Brawl the other day against a really good player. He was styling on me with every single character including low tiers. If I had told him "oh man, Bowser is so good!" he'd say no. I'm just a huge n00b in Brawl so I don't know any better.

Tier lists are flexible, too. They change along with the metagame. Characters that were thought to be low tiers/generally low can move up the tier list. See: Axe and Pikachu in Melee

In my opinion, it just makes winning with low tiers that much rewarding.

EDIT: but yes, I agree with the notion that tier lists don't matter TOO much and they shouldn't dictate who you play. Though I think acknowledging the tier list is not a bad idea because there is a lot of truth in those lists.

 

[M!nt]

To be honest, I'm an Anti-Tierist. I don't believe in tiers. No person is just as good as a game as another person. And Tier Lists don't believe that and thinks that everyone's equally matched.

What if I'm really good with . (and I am, apparently. Thanks B Link.) and I'm fighting a pretty crappy ? I'd win. And is a lower tier.

WHOA WT- Yup.

IMO, Tier Lists suck and is AWESOME.

I don't see how someone can believe that there isn't a tier list. You honestly think all the characters are perfectly balanced? The list is made from the results of many matches, so the example you said wouldn't happen to often.

 

[asianaussie]

the guy didn't say tier lists don't exist, he's saying they don't apply since player skill takes precedence

 

[M!nt]

I don't believe in tiers.

Sounds like it to me

 

[asianaussie]

well ok, but you still addressed an argument he didn't really make

 

[The Star King]

Not sure if serious, but no, meteor smash is a Melee term.

Also, does anyone know if his fireballs give him extra horizontal recovery like Mario's do?

i'm pretty sure they do, i think the general rule is any fair will give a player a little more momentum and stuff like fireballs, pound, falcon punch, etc. gives you even more

Nooooo. Nooooo. *insert headache puppy here*

Falcon Punch and Pound work because they actually influence your movement. In addition, Kirby and Jigglypuff fairs (or any aerial, but fair for maximum) give you a little momentum because of the way their jumps function. All other fairs, or moves like Fireball (whether Mario's or Luigi's) that don't move you in some way will not give you extra momentum.

The reason people throw fireballs when recovering with Mario/Luigi is for protection purposes.

 

[prisonchild]

i stand corrected.