Lucas's Dthrow chaingrab on spacies?

[eatthischair]

So, while I was messing around in the lab today, I noticed that lucas can chain his dthrow on spacies pretty reliably, in fact I was able to do it until around 60%.
However, I don't have anybody to practice with, so I'm not sure if these are DI dependent or not.
Can anyone confirm if this is a real thing?

 

[D e l t a]

Lucas has a dthrow chain grab confirmed. It's DI dependant and goes from about 30-100% if Spacies don't DI / DI towards the direction Lucas is facing. You'll usually be able to get 1-2 regrabs if you're fast enough on a good opponent catching their bad DI. From there, Upthrow will get a free followup until about 110%. Upthrow is best to CG until 20-30%, then Dthrow until 100% if their DI is poor. Typically they'll DI behind and be forced into a tech chase from Dthrow.

==

Other Characters

• On Mario/Marth type weights from 0 to roughly 20%
  • DI must be behind Lucas
• On heavies/semi-fast fallers like Bowser/DK/Ganon/Diddy from 0-50%
  • DI starts with no DI 0-20% and 20-50 is away
• Characters such as Lucas, Sheik, Falcon, etc get Dthrow CGed really easy. Works from about 0-70% assuming bad DI / DI away from 40-70ish.
• Does not work on floaties such as Kirby, Zelda, Peach, Luigi, etc

 

[eatthischair]

ok cool
so after you chaingrab them to whatever percent, whats the best way to follow up the cgs?

 

[D e l t a]

Uair, Fair, Bair, whatever really. Anything out of Dthrow you usually get anyway

 

[Life]

Reviving an old thread to ask for clarification.

In training mode (which doesn't account for stale moves or DI obviously) I'm getting uthrow to about 30, maybe a djc uair, then regrab into dthrow chains.

With Fox DI'ing up and in (relative to dthrow's knockback, so in front of Lucas), it looks like there's still enough hitstun to regrab for a while, although it'll be tricky to space and time it right--but possible is possible. By the time Fox can escape on this DI, you can probably just djc uair once or twice and nail an usmash for the kill.

With Fox DI'ing the opposite way (down and behind Lucas), it looks like you can make the regrab with time to spare until such a time when you can just DACUS and kill Fox (or maybe throw in SH PK freeze to regrab or something?).

So what I'm saying is, if Lucas grabs Fox on FD, should Fox ever survive? If so, how?

EDIT: Looks like I wasn't quite DI'ing perfectly. Fox escapes Dthrow (DI away) to DACUS (tech) just barely at 100, which is early enough that Fox cannot be killed this way. So I guess DJC uair chains out of the uthrow chaingrab would be our best bet, assuming we're reasonably adept at those--Fox can probably do some combination of DI and SDI that escapes those before usmash kills, but maybe Lucas could do magnet combos or weak fairs to fill in that hole and possibly even finish with something else like fsmash or dsmash or bair.

 

[D e l t a]

You have a guaranteed punish until 30% then it's dash attack 30-50% off an uthrow or from 50-80% off dthrow bad DI. Combo with Uairs and Utilts or simply do Uthrow -> OU up smash to get a quick 70%

All of this is further explained in the subsection of my guide under "Combos: Fast Fallers."

 

[D e l t a]

Oh and to answer your question, at TAS / top pro levels (not even close to that yet), Fox should not and will not live on FD if you get a grab. Similar to Fox getting a grab in spacie dittos, there's a pretty simple flowchart with levels of execution with varying difficulty that leads into death or getting sent off stage and being ledge guarded.

==

Currently my punish game off and upthrow leads into at lowest 60% on FD should I ever get to play there. I basically get the same punishes on smashville and a few other flatter stages that have low platforms like PS2 or distant planet. The best combo / punish game currently is between myself, Kipcom. and Hyperflame. At best, we're all top intermediate players and our punishes can always be improved.

 

[Life]

That's what I was looking for, thanks. Read your guide BTW.

I'm imagining it goes something like uthrow CG->DJC uairs and maybe an uptilt->finisher such as OU smash attack or bair or something? And maybe like DJC fair or dash attack or magnet stuff to cover weird DI?

The thing is that in Lucas I seem to have finally found a character where I enjoy grinding the tech, so I'm really curious about optimizing his punishes in general; Fox seems to be the obvious starting point, being often cited as a poor Lucas matchup and generally being regarded as weak to combos.

 

[D e l t a]

I like getting Uair chains until they fall too low to continue. At that point (around 50-60%) depending on the DI and spacing, I will go for dash attack, utilt, or fsmash. The closer they are to the ground I will opt for Fsmash, then Utilt if I can sweetspot it, and dash attack if I am sure it will connect. Fsmash sends spacies off-stage kills them stupidly easy.

Mastering the timings on Lucas' short hop -> fast falls is key to combo'ing as Lucas. It's not about all the tech you can spam, it's about your timings and option select.

Fox is difficult to combo at low levels. I worked tirelessly labbing tech and finding ways to combo Fox. Start simple.

• Magnet -> SH Bair
  • It's a straightforward combo and is done exactly as you read it.
  • Best below 40-50% and is frame tight.
  • Similar combo to Magnet -> Uair, only the Bair can sometimes force the opponent into a jab reset situation. I presume they don't tech the magnet sending them into ground quickly and the Bair is weak enough to force a getup. Also similar to Fox's thunderous combo (waveshine -> jab reset) which has to be tech'd on prediction.
  • Tacks on a quick 20% and leads into turn around magnet, dash attack, or tilts/smash attacks since the opponent misses the tech 90% of the time. My training partner who deals with my Lucas all the time still misses these techs occasionally and he's seen it hundreds of times. Don't rely on missed techs, but know that they will miss the tech from a magnet at low % most times.
• Uthrow chain grab from 0-30%
  • Work getting one re-grab then go for 2 in a row and finally the 3rd re-grab.
• SHFFL & DJC Uairs from Uthrow
  • Know when and how to followup from Uthrow
  • Practice immediate Uairs (don't jump cancel them into an upsmash by mistake) and also delaying Uairs for DI mixups and combo extenders.
• Extend & finish off Uair combos
  • Learn to instantly recognize when:
  • Utilt will sweetspot
  • To go for dash attack
  • To opt for a re-grab from Uairs
  • To finish the combo with Fsmash or Uthrow -> upsmash
• Dash attack conversions (this applies to all characters, not just spacies in particular)
  • Dash attack is busted on spacies after 60% or so because it's a super free followup into whatever you want so long as you're able to act immediately after the IASA frames.
  • From easiest to hardest IMO: dash attack -> utilt, Uair, Bair, usmash (not always guaranteed), sweetspot Bair.

 

[D e l t a]

Start from there and learn these few simple followups. The more you practice, the easier it gets.

I'll post more things to grind in the lab if you want. Just let me know and I'll make up a thing later