Lucas Viability

[ForteX]

I mean Ness is literally top tier in Smash 4 xD If Lucas is just as good, thatll be scary xD

Everyone is top tier in Smash 4. Balance is a hell of a drug.

 

[Darklink401]

Everyone is top tier in Smash 4. Balance is a hell of a drug.

They really aren't. xD
Ness is literally top 10 at least.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I dont think DThrow actually buries. It looks like it's just a graphical effect, since Mega Man bounced into the air rather than popping out like he would have had he been truly buried.

 

[Darklink401]

I dont think DThrow actually buries. It looks like it's just a graphical effect, since Mega Man bounced into the air rather than popping out like he would have had he been truly buried.

That'd certainly be interesting.
However at least it seems he can combo from dthrow which is good.

 

[extremechiton]

Aren't the reasons why Ness is stronger in this game because SDI became weaker (thus making PK Fire better?) and the fact that his recovery improved like ten tons?

If your character has a quick jab, you can mash A to protect yourself from Ness grab

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Aren't the reasons why Ness is stronger in this game because SDI became weaker (thus making PK Fire better?) and the fact that his recovery improved like ten tons?

That and his FAir hits completely and combos more reliably now, DThrow sets it up really nicely, and UAir is crazy stronk.

 

[Drippy]

That and his FAir hits completely and combos more reliably now, DThrow sets it up really nicely, and UAir is crazy stronk.

Ahh I wasn't aware of that, so it did seems he got quite a lot of buffs in this game.

 

[Darklink401]

That and his FAir hits completely and combos more reliably now, DThrow sets it up really nicely, and UAir is crazy stronk.

IDK how early PK Ness killed before, but PK Ness now kills someone like Mario at 25% at the edge.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Ahh I wasn't aware of that, so it did seems he got quite a lot of buffs in this game.

Yeah and it also has a lot to do with the overall engine changes. The fact that people can't just airdodge to immediately end hitstun like they could in Brawl alone really benefits Ness.

IDK how early PK Ness killed before, but PK Ness now kills someone like Mario at 25% at the edge.

PK Ness?...

 

[Drippy]

Yeah and it also has a lot to do with the overall engine changes. The fact that people can't just airdodge to immediately end hitstun like they could in Brawl alone really benefits Ness.


PK Ness?...

Yeah I'm not as familiar with the Brawl engine because I just used to play back than just to play. Didn't really pay attention to that type of stuff but now ever since picking up Sm4sh, I've been wanting to play all the other games at a competitive level. Also I think he meant PKT2 lol.

 

[Darklink401]

PK Ness?...

Yeah thats what I call when Ness hits himself with PK thunder =P

 

[Aenglaan]

Lucas will probably be a character that will be easier to use than Ness. That's what he was in Brawl anyway...

 

[Fabolous Golden Falcon]

Yeah thats what I call when Ness hits himself with PK thunder =P

That's actually a really good name, now that I think about it.

 

[Darklink401]

That's actually a really good name, now that I think about it.

Of course it is ;D

 

[TearsforFears]

Yeah thats what I call when Ness hits himself with PK thunder =P

I've always called it PK Cannon

 

[Narth]

Although Ness is very good competitively, and that's a good thing, I think Lucas has a more interesting and distinctive moveset. With Ness players, I see PK Fire into grab combos, like Dthrow Fair and Bthrow. I feel like watching Lucas competitively will be more interesting, with his Up Smash's power and his Dthrow's burying mechanic. His tether also gives him a one-up on Ness's recovery!

Ness is still fantastic though, I'm more talking about how I like a character as opposed to how good they are; I find Lucas more interesting.

 

[pikazz]

reading through the thread and is seeing how everyone is confused that Dthrow Buries. but let me remind you that it doesnt!
you can clearly see how Megaman flies upward as soon as the grab is done. otherwise he would otherwise look like this:

instead for this

however, the grab is buffed with almost no lag at all after the throw, meaning that the Nair after is a true combo!
at lower %, DThrow to Upsmash is still possible

 

[ottobot]

I'm surprised how little y'all are mentioning PK Love (usmash). As someone who mained Lucas in Brawl (i know he sucked but i was mad casual back then) i can tell you, that thing is godly. I don't remember the exact numbers but it could kill at around 30% in some cases and had a deceptively large hitbox on the sides. Now that most of lucas's glaring flaws are gone (grab release, etc) and usmash's power seems about the same from the trailer, I think lucas is gonna have some hardcore killing potential.

 

[Putuk]

I'm surprised how little y'all are mentioning PK Love (usmash). As someone who mained Lucas in Brawl (i know he sucked but i was mad casual back then) i can tell you, that thing is godly. I don't remember the exact numbers but it could kill at around 30% in some cases and had a deceptively large hitbox on the sides. Now that most of lucas's glaring flaws are gone (grab release, etc) and usmash's power seems about the same from the trailer, I think lucas is gonna have some hardcore killing potential.

Biggest problem with it of course is landing it, since there's a lil' buildup, which the opponent could use to shield or get away.
Still, if you get a good read, that could be really useful, it's not like it has Warloc Punch buildup.

 

[Deleted member]

I didn't care for Lucas in Brawl, but the reveal was so hype that I just might give him a whirl. He looks really good!

 

[Pepto]

Then again, you say the range was "deceptive" so you may have had a better experience with it than I have, I dunno.

It's by no means an amazing tether, but it's completely effective. Its range was a lot longer than people gave it credit for, it was just weird to get (the angles and timing had to be right, I'm not sure how to explain it). Other than a handful of times where I just threw out a desperate tether from really far away, I've never had any problems grabbing the ledge.

My biggest concern is whether his magnet's aerial momentum is the same as Ness' or if it the same as it was in Brawl. If it kills momentum and takes forever to cancel, he'll have lost one of his best recovery options.

 

[PKBeam]

he probably already lost his best recovery option. or will, once samurai does some patchwork.

 

[Benmjy]

I'm so excited to pick up Lucas again, he will definitely be my main. I always dabbled with him in Brawl and Project M but never really tried to explore his potential. But ever since I've played Mother 3, I've completely and utterly fallen in love with him as a character. However I'm not too sure what to make of his viability. I'm honestly hoping he's somewhere around Ness, even slightly below is fine, I just hope he doesn't fall too low like my lovely Palutena. I tried maining Palutena but couldn't get the hang of her. I'm really hoping Lucas will at least be halfway decent but I can't really analyze much for myself because up until Smash 4 came out I was EXTREMELY casual, and I still am fairly casual but am trying to improve my skills.

 

[ToastMiller]

Yeah thats what I call when Ness hits himself with PK thunder =P

that's literally the best name for pkt2

 

[Snackss]

I played Lucas and Falco in Brawl, and we all know what happened to Falco. If they mess up Lucas I will explode.

 

[ToastMiller]

RIP in piece Lucas' magnet.
killed by mash potato samurai in favor of casuals

 

[MintChipper]

So does d-throw bury or not? Cause I hope not.

 

[Benmjy]

So does d-throw bury or not? Cause I hope not.

No, it's more of an aesthetic effect than an actual functional bury.

 

[Mysteltainn]

I'm going to just throw out there that I'm sure he'll be a formidable opponent to deal with, for mostly the same reasons that Ness is what he is in Smash 4. I know it's way too early to tell, but if anything, there's a chance that Lucas may even be able to fair out even better or equal to the levels of Ness due to that tether being a very valuable asset this time around (assuming it doesn't get nerfed upon release).

Judging from the footage we saw, he retains the positive qualities that he had in Brawl, but like Ness, won't be as easily gimped near the edge, and won't have to deal with grab + release shenanigans shutting him down. With an improved tether and a seemingly great D-Throw for combos (yes, I know it doesn't really bury, but there is little lag for Lucas afterwards), things are looking good for Lucas; now we just play the waiting game to see his hit-boxes, priority in his moves, and potential combos for a verdict.

In the end though, I'll be using him regardless alongside Ness. I'm just glad the EarthBound fans were heard. Perhaps Star Fox fans will be as lucky...

 

[ToastMiller]

I'm guessing he isn't going to be as good as Ness. Ness's fair is just so good, it almost carries the whole character. Obviously he's got other good options, but still fair is such a driving force and I would have to say Ness owes his high tier position to this move and would be high mid at best without it.

 

[UseHydroPimp]

Trailer always make characters look better then they are, looks like a better ness to me.

 

[ToastMiller]

Trailer always make characters look better then they are, looks like a better ness to me.

I saw the Robin trailer and thought for sure I would main him.... Nope.

 

[Pepto]

Trailer always make characters look better then they are, looks like a better ness to me.

If he can combo into usmash, he's top tier. If he can't, he'll be good.

 

[Mo433]

To be honest, I think that Lucas will not be better than Ness simply because of the fact that Ness has gotten soooo much better this time around. The good thing is, Lucas won't be bad even if he were to be cut straight from Brawl with absolutely no changes, which most likely won't happen.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

I think Lucas will be High tier with Ness. Ledge trumping with his back air will be menacing, he has combo's, several good recovery options and U-smash+Rage will probably be to strongest smash in the game. I really wonder how quick that will kill f Lucas is at 150%. The worst thing that could happen is the same thing as with Mewtwo, that he'll be extremely light. Let's just hope he's around Ness's weight.

 

[Strong-Arm]

I believe Lucas will be a great character. Idk about absolute top tier char, but I believe he'll be in the top 10 probably. The down throw looks like a guaranteed combo at low percents, plus the extended use of his tether recovery buffs him there. Lets not forget that his PK thunder goes through opponents which gives him an obvious upgrade from Ness in that department (Excluding customs cause Ness has Lucas's up special as a recovery option). Also considering the amount of hitstun in this game has increased his jab will be far more useful considering how you could land it easily in Brawl, it'll be even better here (Pk kicks all day lol). They'll probably buff him quite a bit like they did Mewtwo because he was regarded as low tier/low mid tier character in Brawl. Sakurai despite being against competitive smash does pay attention (Dk dash attack, Character buffs and nerfs for previous top tiers/low tiers (Meta knight, Fox, Pika, Mew2, Ganon etc) So he'll probably buff Lucas.

 

[UseHydroPimp]

I believe Lucas will be a great character. Idk about absolute top tier char, but I believe he'll be in the top 10 probably. The down throw looks like a guaranteed combo at low percents, plus the extended use of his tether recovery buffs him there. Lets not forget that his PK thunder goes through opponents which gives him an obvious upgrade from Ness in that department (Excluding customs cause Ness has Lucas's up special as a recovery option). Also considering the amount of hitstun in this game has increased his jab will be far more useful considering how you could land it easily in Brawl, it'll be even better here (Pk kicks all day lol). They'll probably buff him quite a bit like they did Mewtwo because he was regarded as low tier/low mid tier character in Brawl. Sakurai despite being against competitive smash does pay attention (Dk dash attack, Character buffs and nerfs for previous top tiers/low tiers (Meta knight, Fox, Pika, Mew2, Ganon etc) So he'll probably buff Lucas.

Not to mention he cant be trolled as much by Rosalina with his tether.