Kaloshade1
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2015
- Messages
- 10
Ok this matchup imo is freaking terrible. Getting shot in the face hurts and no one like it. What should be done in order to win this matchup?
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Lucas versus Samus
- Thread starter Kaloshade1
- Start date
zFrost
how do i title
power/perfect shield, weave ur way into samus by jumping over missles(if they're just spamming them), also ice clanks with them
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D e l t a
That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Overview
You have to choose your spacing and positioning very well. Samus will be off shooting auto-cancel missiles and reading your movement to get off charge shots whenever possible. After interactions in neutral, the Samus player will go for reads on your movement and reactions so they can either UpB, CC Dsmash, or grab you whenever possible. You will be wise to mix up every option choice you do against competent Samus players.
Neutral
Avoid missiles: easier said than done.
Use platforms to your advantage. Understand the pattern that they follow: Samus has to platform cancel to spam missiles so she's either shooting one closer to the ground or up high. Tether, PKF, and well timed Fair will go thru missiles. Fsmash / perfect shield will reflect them. PKF clanks them.
Use safe approaches. Don't run in blindly with magnet / Nair and use as little dash attack as possible. You'll get 0 conversions from dash attack and the move doesn't set up for anything in the MU. Magnet / Nair will get eaten by CC as well.
Other Stuff
PKF to intercept her recovery. PKT1 when she's far away off-stage to tack on some extra damage / mess up her recovery slightly. You can try going out there but it's not recommended.. As for recovering as Lucas, she can cover tether very well, so be wary of this. Bombs, Nair, etc can all intercept Lucas' tether. Her missiles can be hell offstage so don't always magnet stall right away, as magnet doesn't do anything vs missiles. This is where Fair is good to hopefully get thru missiles (2 frame active hitbox = better git gud or die).
When juggling, Uair goes thru bombs (downb), but trades with her Nair. Uair is good for comboing, and I personally believe it's better than Fair in this MU.
Concluding Notes
Read how Samus wants to shield pressure and approach.
Adapt to her missile patterns and defensive options.
Think about every move you throw at her unless you want to get absolutely messed up.
Play it safe; Lucas' risk/reward is much more potent than hers. One or two mistakes from you could equal a stock, whereas Samus' mistakes may only result in 30-40%.
At low %'s:
You have to choose your spacing and positioning very well. Samus will be off shooting auto-cancel missiles and reading your movement to get off charge shots whenever possible. After interactions in neutral, the Samus player will go for reads on your movement and reactions so they can either UpB, CC Dsmash, or grab you whenever possible. You will be wise to mix up every option choice you do against competent Samus players.
Neutral
Avoid missiles: easier said than done.
Use platforms to your advantage. Understand the pattern that they follow: Samus has to platform cancel to spam missiles so she's either shooting one closer to the ground or up high. Tether, PKF, and well timed Fair will go thru missiles. Fsmash / perfect shield will reflect them. PKF clanks them.
Use safe approaches. Don't run in blindly with magnet / Nair and use as little dash attack as possible. You'll get 0 conversions from dash attack and the move doesn't set up for anything in the MU. Magnet / Nair will get eaten by CC as well.
Other Stuff
PKF to intercept her recovery. PKT1 when she's far away off-stage to tack on some extra damage / mess up her recovery slightly. You can try going out there but it's not recommended.. As for recovering as Lucas, she can cover tether very well, so be wary of this. Bombs, Nair, etc can all intercept Lucas' tether. Her missiles can be hell offstage so don't always magnet stall right away, as magnet doesn't do anything vs missiles. This is where Fair is good to hopefully get thru missiles (2 frame active hitbox = better git gud or die).
When juggling, Uair goes thru bombs (downb), but trades with her Nair. Uair is good for comboing, and I personally believe it's better than Fair in this MU.
Concluding Notes
Read how Samus wants to shield pressure and approach.
Adapt to her missile patterns and defensive options.
Think about every move you throw at her unless you want to get absolutely messed up.
Play it safe; Lucas' risk/reward is much more potent than hers. One or two mistakes from you could equal a stock, whereas Samus' mistakes may only result in 30-40%.
At low %'s:
- Off down throw, you want to get a solid 30% or more
- Off Dair (whether it pops her up or leaves her grounded w/ no tech after the 3rd hit), you'll want to get 50% or more on Samus
Welcome to the Lucas boards, Kaloshade.
I just want to second that up airs are amazing and should be your primary combo tool in this matchup. It can take forever to kill Samus if you can't find a grab at high percents, but you can shark her very effectively with good movement and uair. You can try to snipe her off the top with PKT1 using uair's ridiculously quick IASA frames, though Samus doesn't seem to take enough hitstun to make it a true combo. It's very safe as I recall, as Samus is so floaty.
I just want to second that up airs are amazing and should be your primary combo tool in this matchup. It can take forever to kill Samus if you can't find a grab at high percents, but you can shark her very effectively with good movement and uair. You can try to snipe her off the top with PKT1 using uair's ridiculously quick IASA frames, though Samus doesn't seem to take enough hitstun to make it a true combo. It's very safe as I recall, as Samus is so floaty.
D e l t a
That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
PKF -> Fair is a godsend kill option on floaties. I find the sweetspot more often than not. On Samus, PKF -> Fsmash seems to work very well surprisingly...
Juggling Samus and finding ways to juggle her are the biggest ways to expose her weaknesses.
Juggling Samus and finding ways to juggle her are the biggest ways to expose her weaknesses.
Kaloshade1
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2015
- Messages
- 10
Thank you everyone who replied, gonna try these out as soon as possible.
Kaloshade1
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2015
- Messages
- 10
Ok, so ive tried these tips out, I can't get good hits in. I can move into close range, provided they aren't spamming missiles, but I cant trade in close quarters. It just turns into a sad repetition of, get in, do 10 damage, get hit with any move and im 50 feet away 20 percent worse off. this is ridiculous.
D e l t a
That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
You shouldn't be trying to trade with Samus. The best range to be at up close is just inside of her Ftilt - is approximately Lucas' sweetspot Fair range, and as far away as a grounded PKF will hit
Wait for Samus to commit to a SH AC missile and punish her as she's going up. Running shield especially helps with countering missiles, just make sure your OoS game is on point and you understand the exact timing of missile's shield stun.
You'll want to use Dair a lot and get grabs as much as possible without spamming either. Get up close to make Samus flustered and potentially stop shooting missiles, then bait her options. Don't try to Fair Samus unless it's a sweetspot at mid %'s or higher as she can always CC Dsmash that. Fade back Fair is also a decently safe option to avoid CC Dsmash. Nair can sometimes convert well into Dtilt, but it's not recommended under 40%, especially if the Samus is closer to the ground. Pokes with SH mag do alright and can put Samus into uncomfortable positions.
This MU is all about playing tight zones and not committing to any approaches. Be sure to not give Samus any breathing room while not getting too close.
==
As for not converting, I'd have to see you actually vsing a Samus to see how you start your punishes and if you're following up correctly.
Against Samus, you basically want to get her up to 50% or higher with conversions off of Dthrow or Dair. If the Samus doesn't know how to deal with PKF, camp Samus until you get her popped in the air and are 100% sure you can follow up from there. Otherwise, do your best to juggle her for as long as possible with Uairs whenever you get the chance, and Fairs at higher %.
If you try to do anything else against Samus, you're most likely going to have a bad time.
Wait for Samus to commit to a SH AC missile and punish her as she's going up. Running shield especially helps with countering missiles, just make sure your OoS game is on point and you understand the exact timing of missile's shield stun.
You'll want to use Dair a lot and get grabs as much as possible without spamming either. Get up close to make Samus flustered and potentially stop shooting missiles, then bait her options. Don't try to Fair Samus unless it's a sweetspot at mid %'s or higher as she can always CC Dsmash that. Fade back Fair is also a decently safe option to avoid CC Dsmash. Nair can sometimes convert well into Dtilt, but it's not recommended under 40%, especially if the Samus is closer to the ground. Pokes with SH mag do alright and can put Samus into uncomfortable positions.
This MU is all about playing tight zones and not committing to any approaches. Be sure to not give Samus any breathing room while not getting too close.
==
As for not converting, I'd have to see you actually vsing a Samus to see how you start your punishes and if you're following up correctly.
Against Samus, you basically want to get her up to 50% or higher with conversions off of Dthrow or Dair. If the Samus doesn't know how to deal with PKF, camp Samus until you get her popped in the air and are 100% sure you can follow up from there. Otherwise, do your best to juggle her for as long as possible with Uairs whenever you get the chance, and Fairs at higher %.
If you try to do anything else against Samus, you're most likely going to have a bad time.
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