Lucas Technology Thread

[Eisen]

Post your technical/AT/combo findings here.

Some things I find particularly key:

- Lucas can still reverse his momentum with magnet
- Lucas has no auto-cancel aerials, but most are fairly close, with nair having the least landing lag--hardly any.
- full hop Rope snake autocancels onto a bunch of platforms. I've tested in on Smashville, BF, Miiverse, DL64. Need to test more.
- Downsmash hits taller characters like Bowser from platforms above.
- fullhop nair autocancels onto BF-esque platforms, and then links into short hop nair or other moves depending on the situation.
-At higher percents, PK thunder (not PKT2) seems to launch opponents in generally the same direction the PKT is. This means you can do stuff like pull a nearby opponent in with PKT, connecting them into your face-first PKT2.

Not much, but I've been just kinda hyped in general and playing FG and I'm not very good so I bet there's a lot more to discover soon.

 

[ZxFlashFreezexZ]

Hey, I have a combo, but it's kinda been shown in the Lucas trailer already:

dthrow-->nair

I found that this combo only really works at super low % (around 0-20), because all of his throws launch opponents pretty far away from him.
Really hyped for Lucas, just started testing him out!

-THC| ZxFlashFreezexZ

 

[XCounter]

He can still B-stick PK Fire and get pushed back considerably.

He can also PKT2 twice just like Ness.

 

[SadSquirtles2001]

- A lot of Lucas's moves have sweet spots / tippers and they're very important. Tipper Fair and tipper dash attack can both kill at high percents.
- His back throw is his main kill throw. It's no Ness back throw but it'll kill near the ledge pretty easily. His forward throw and up throw also kill but require higher percents.
- Down throw Up-Air seems to work at all percents. One jump at low percents and double jump at higher percents. They can only dodge if you follow their DI wrong. Incredibly solid kill option
- Short hop Nair into U-Tilt is a combo at mid and high percents. Doesn't combo at low percents but its fast enough to work sometimes. It's only nets you 13% but it pops them up into the air which is always nice.
- Down-B sends opponents straight horizontally and kills near ledge at about 120%. Its heal has also been buffed.
- Many of Lucas' aerials can only be short-hopped if you use the move immediately. This is especially noticeable with PK Fire which will do nothing if you use it too late after short hopping and leave you in crippling endlag. It's bad. Down air is also basically useless when short hopped so don't do that.

Overall Lucas isn't bad but he has problems in the neutral game that keep him from being great. His speed isn't great and he's very floaty which gets him stuck in the air. All his short hop aerials are pretty punishable except from nair and just don't have the range to make up for it. The startup time and endlag on PK Fire is pretty bad. You can throw one out to delay an approach but delay is all it will do. Best case scenario it hits and they have to try again. But generally they will just shield or jump and close the distance while you're stuck in endlag. His laggy dash attack and grab also make neutral difficult.
This isn't to say Lucas doesn't have strengths, I'm probably overstating his weaknesses. All his moves are pretty strong and satisfying when they hit and he some nice combos and strings when he gets an opening. He seems perfectly viable and I plan on finding more tech with him. Maybe I'm just a bit salty that he doesn't seem as strong as Roy or Ryu.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

Lucas DOES have a jab lock (Reset), you have to hit with the VERY edge of the foot I believe of dtilt, it's VERY hard.

Its extremely weird

 

[Bonk!]

You can still use a safer Pk-fire by B-sticking and use Magnet to get more distance. I was able to go under Dreamland with this.

 

[MrTeddyBear]

Lucas can still ledge cancel his PKT2. It's hard to do but it's possible.

D-Throw to U-tilt is a combo at low percents.

You can stall in the air with the Magnet if you use it repeatedly.

With some characters (like Toon Link and Lucario) you can do a grab release and hit them with D-Tilt afterwards which can potentially lead to stuff like jab or F-tilt if they try to attack afterwards (since you're hitting with the tip of the foot, it's safe on shield even if they powershield it, so jab/F-tilt will hit them if they don't know about this and try to attack).

I'm pretty sure D-tilt doesn't trip opponents anymore so unfortunately you can't use this to get the trip to U-Smash kill but fortunately it does jab lock if you hit with the tip of the foot (FH Dair can often lead into this if they don't tech) so you can get an U-Smash kill that way

 

[Flamjam]

If you use PK Freeze in the air while moving, you can continue to move a little while using it. Since it’s not a bad move, horizontally, I guess retreating PK Freeze can be a thing, as well as ledge cancelled ones (though watch out for SDs, because of free-fall)

 

[Bonk!]

If you use PK Freeze in the air while moving, you can continue to move a little while using it. Since it’s not a bad move, horizontally, I guess retreating PK Freeze can be a thing, as well as ledge cancelled ones (though watch out for SDs, because of free-fall)

This was a technique in Brawl. By setting the C-Stick to Special Moves you can do instant wavebounces with PK Fire, making you move with much more recoil after firing it in the air. This makes it much safer and you can even extend the distance you drift by using Magnet. This all combines into some cool movement options for Lucas (Ex. you can go under Dreamland 64).

 

[Tubesock00]

A nice little string I have been having success with

SH Nair -> dtilt -> grab -> dthrow -> up air

also standing on the ledge while holding magnet can give some character with linear recoveries some trouble.

 

[YouReadMyName]

With characters who have a vertical recovery such as Gabon or little Mac, you can do a reverse back air to spike. So you jump off stage forward facing then execute a bair to connect with a vertical recovery.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

What do you all suggest I should learn?

PKT's "Uppercuting" seems to be gone, or more difficult to do. PKT's also much slower which is a bummer.

 

[Tremendo Dude]

It's possible to perform two PKFires from a single full-hop. Currently working on a video demonstrating it. I should have it up by tomorrow! I need to test to see if Ness can do the same thing. Maybe it's something that's already known?

You can also cancel the ending lag of full hop PKFire similarly to Ness, with an aerial like upair or nair with low landing lag, or even with Magnet as an attack to keep people from punishing you!

 

[MrTeddyBear]

It's possible to perform two PKFires from a single full-hop. Currently working on a video demonstrating it. I should have it up by tomorrow! I need to test to see if Ness can do the same thing. Maybe it's something that's already known?

You can also cancel the ending lag of full hop PKFire similarly to Ness, with an aerial like upair or nair with low landing lag, or even with Magnet as an attack to keep people from punishing you!

Yeah you could do the same thing in Brawl. Though people usually jumped before they landed after doing the FH PK Fire and did another one or a Fair to keep them away.

 

[PGP]

So Lucas can do d-throw->any aerial as a true combo (depending on percent). This includes bair facing opponent, bair facing away from opponent, and zair (perhaps this was obvious, just no ones mentioned this yet).

He can do zair->f-tilt, guaranteed at low percents so long as you're close and time it correctly.

 

[Ciex]

Hey everyone! Got a combo string that i've had some success with.
As we all probably know already, Lucas can combo with any aerial after d-throw.
So here goes!:

Grab, D-throw -> turnaround jump/dash jump b-air -> FF N-air > Grab, U-tilt -> FH N-air -> F-air(Sweetspot)
This does 48% if both the b-air and F-air was sweetspotted.
45% if only one of the moves were sweetspotted.
41% if none of the moves were sweetspotted.
39% if the b-air was sourspotted and f-air was not sweetspotted.

If the f-air was sweetspotted, try to go for a PK Fire for an additional 9% damage! or maybe even a down-b if they DI in?!

Of course, you can re-grab instead of doing an uptilt and get a few pummels in.
But up-tilt does 9% and d-throw does 6%.
Each pummel does 1,2%(5 pummels = 6%)
So if you feel like you can do more than three pummels and/or if you like it more, go for it!

I don't have any footage of this, i can't record. I don't have a capture card and the YouTube video feature they're adding isn't available yet. But i do think that this combo kinda speaks for itself.

I'm pretty sure this is NOT a guaranteed combo, it could be character dependent, but it has been working everytime on my friends while at lower percent. But i do feel like it's a pretty safe combo since d-throw -> b-air (sweetspotted) does 18%, which is only 1% lower than d-throw -> upair. Then if you manage to FF N-air into them you should be able to follow up with any tilt or a grab which goes into another aerial! Once, my friend air-dodged the N-air, but then they instead get the landing lag for airdodging into the ground which gives you even MORE time to get to work on that up-tilt or d-throw. Or maybe even something else that YOU discovered?! Let us know!
You might as well go for it on the low percents, right?

This combo is LEGIT if you manage to get it in, and if you didn't get any further than landing the b-air after d-throw, you still got atleast 13% on em', right?

This was tested mostly on Ryu, Roy, Sonic and Bowser.

Keep on trying things out! Think outside of the box and explore, THERE ARE NO BOUNDS!

Correct me if i got something wrong here, i've lost sleep due to this DLC and mistakes might've happened as i wrote this.
(Best DLC i've purchased everrr)

I should really get some sleep now, hopefully i didn't miss something. see you guys around!

 

[Tremendo Dude]

Yeah you could do the same thing in Brawl. Though people usually jumped before they landed after doing the FH PK Fire and did another one or a Fair to keep them away.

That does seem a bit more practical. I was unable to replicate what I discovered in Brawl, though I might just be flubbing the timing. That said, maybe combining what I found with jumping during the ending of PKFire will create some interesting opportunities?

The idea is to use PKFire the instant you land. Too late, and you'll be in landing lag. Too early, and you'll shout out the attack without actually using it, as landing cancels the attack and puts you in landing lag.

I tested it with Ness and it works as well, arguably more effectively due to the downwards angle of the projectile. That said, it doesn't seem to be listed in the Ness tech thread, so imma go ahead and upload the video regardless once I have it done. Shouldn't be long now.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

I've been having a lot of success with PK Freeze while the opponent is recovering. If you end up hitting with it while opponent is recovering, you can follow up with PK Fire which can knock them back enough to ko them.

 

[Tremendo Dude]

I've been a little slow on the video, but I got this for you guys in the meantime. I'll probably edit this post with the video later on if this thread stays above the surface.

 

[JosePollo]

Been toying around with Lucas:
-If you miss the 5th hit of nair, you can follow it up with an up tilt fairly reliably due to nair's minimal landing lag. Your opponent can still shield it, but they have to be expecting to NOT get hit by nair's finisher.
-Up tilt, in general, is a pretty move to catch the opponent off-guard with, since it comes out so fast. You don't want to spam it, because it does have a bit of end lag to it, but it's a very useful tool that can combo into itself at lower percentages.
-Down throw can be followed up on into some pretty high percentages (I've been able to follow up into up air kills at around 120%). All you have to do is double jump. Nair is still the most reliable follow-up, but if you get a good read on their DI you can get some meatier hits in.
-Up throw starts to kill Jigglypuff (FD, no rage, no DI) around 110% and Bowser around 165%, so if you're around that range you can go for an up throw. I don't know why a lot of people don't talk about up throw much. It's his 2nd most reliable kill move, in my opinion.
-Ledge trumping is extra strong on Lucas due to his numerous ledge guarding options. Up smash hits the ledge and can cover the opponent's roll, get-up, and jump with good spacing, down smash hits the ledge and has strong horizontal launch, he can walk-off bair for a spike, he can full hop dair the ledge for the spike, he can walk-off turnaround Magnet if you want to get flashy... he's got options.
-Advancing sour spot fair at knockdown percentages allows you to apply pressure really well since you land right in front of your enemy. If they tech, then it's a simple tech read situation you can capitalize on, if they don't tech you can jab lock with non-tipped down tilt. Tipped down tilt will stand them right back up, so if you don't get your spacing right, you can follow up with f-tilt or, if you're feeling ballsy, f-smash.
-PSI Magnet is a useful tool against brawler characters like Mario and Captain Falcon, especially because of how well you can space it with a jump cancel, due to it's momentum properties. I've had some pretty good results against Luigi by using PSI Magnet.

 

[MrTeddyBear]

I don't know why people don't utilize this at all, but PK Fire has a much lower ending lag if you do it close to the ground. It's much better than doing SH PK Fire or just PK Fires on the ground and you can still cover shorthops while being able to act out quickly (in case they powershield and try to attack you).

Also people need to do SHAD (short hop air dodge) more often. It's a good way to approach, and that's important since he doesn't have many reliable tools of approaching. You can cancel the landing lag of SHAD by using Bair so you're able to act quickly against them.

 

[FlamingForce]

-Advancing sour spot fair at knockdown percentages allows you to apply pressure really well since you land right in front of your enemy. If they tech, then it's a simple tech read situation you can capitalize on, if they don't tech you can jab lock with non-tipped down tilt. Tipped down tilt will stand them right back up, so if you don't get your spacing right, you can follow up with f-tilt or, if you're feeling ballsy, f-smash.

I thought tipper dtilt was what jab locked ppl? In my experience it's the none-tippers that knock people right on their feet again. Tipper dtilt initiates the lock and sourspot ftilt will keep it going

 

[Token523]

can some one test if ok magnet can blow up samus missiles

 

[Ciex]

can some one test if ok magnet can blow up samus missiles

Nope, it just goes through PSI Magnet. Not even the explosion from it can be absorbed..

 

[Token523]

Nope, it just goes through PSI Magnet. Not even the explosion from it can be absorbed..

I'm asking if you can drop it and make them blow up

 

[Dumbfire]

Lucas has insignificant and laggy item throws, which is very annoying when you do happen to catch a turnip / megaman blade / bomb / gyro (which is not difficult with Z-catching due to Lucas' good air mobility). He can't jump cancel back throw apparently, so you'll have to do a reversed dash-attack cancelled item throw with the tilt-stick: run in a direction, press Z to throw, then roll the control stick up fast while flicking the C-stick (set to attack) backwards and you'll turn around for a reverse throw with a very mild slide -- it's the best way to throw items with him I've found. You can test it with Link, you'll get the reverse fake-out slide with him. (The old DACUS input method doesn't appear to work with Lucas.)

 

[SiSu]

Use his Zair. You welcome everyone