Lucas problems

[-Key-]

I've been playing quite a bit against Lucas lately, and I continually run into the same problems against him so I'm hoping you guys have some advice on how I can better deal with these issues.

- At low percentages I get comboed really hard. Like 0-82% hard. Not every time is that bad (thank goodness), but I would say somewhere in the 30-40% range occurs fairly regularly. These combos generally revolve around back-and-forth Nairs being strung together, and I really have no idea how to escape that once it starts. I generally get comboed this way until I have reached a percentage that makes the move no longer comboable.

- PK Freeze (Side-B) land-cancels and if I shield or clink it (with Falcon Kick for example), I get grabbed. It also comes out too high to be short-hopped over as far as I can tell. The only decent solution I've found so far to this is to basically Nair camp because Nair outprioritizes it and the second kick punishes Lucas' approach.

- Lucas' Bair is just stupid as an edgeguard. It's basically gives him a free kill unless you can avoid it because you're recovering from well above the stage.

- I have absolutely no clue about how to edgeguard him. If stay on stage, he gets a free tether. His tether also prevents edgehogging. If I go out to try to prevent the tether option, he can use Down-B to hit me which then allows him to then beat me back to the edge. At that point, I'm recovering from a trajectory that makes me a sitting duck for getting spiked by Bair.

Pointers of any kind concerning this matchup would be much appreciated, thanks!

 

[-Fatality-]

Out of curiousity, is Sartron the Lucas that's giving you trouble?
Moving on, I don't actually have much experience in this matchup with any decent Lucas players outside of Sartron, so some of this going to be just theory.

When being Nair'd, you should try smash DI'ing away from him into the ground, and DI down, so that you can CC, shield, or at least just be able to move again to escape the combos.

Nair camping is probably the best general solution to PK Freeze, since the second hit covers you pretty well, and really just patient, almost campy play from Falcon is, I think mandatory for playing the matchup optimally.

Bair is annoying, the easiest way to deal with it is to just mix-up your recovery REALLY HARD, so they'll be forced to guess a lot with edgeguarding you, since it's not that fast a move.

Very safe off-stage play is probably the best against Lucas since the risk-reward ratio for going off-stage generally isn't in your favor.
You can try doing short hop Fair (not FF'd) offstage like a sex kick, and if it doesn't hit, double jump Uair back on stage, if it does hit, just follow up in whatever way you deem best. It's almost impossible for them to screw you over when doing that. You can also wavedash onto the ledge before you think they're about to tether, and then just hit them with an Uair or Nair when they jump back up on stage since the tether jump onstage has at least several frames where they're unable to input anything.

Hopefully that will help dude

 

[Steel Banana]

I play a good Lucas very regularly and I do pretty well most of the time.

Both characters can 0-death each other with a few good reads, so its a scary matchup for both characters. The Lucas I play against doesn't really combo with Nair too often, but Fatality's advice sounds solid in that regard.

Pretty much the ONLY way to deal with PK Freeze head on is a Nair. Anything else will get punished hard. The good thing about Falcon, though, is that he can run almost as fast as PK Freeze can travel, so if you learn the range of both PK Freezes, you can dash away and back into mid-range fairly quickly.

Falcon gets edgeguarded hard by Lucas (and most of the rest of the cast). If you make it back, then the Lucas did something wrong. No real way around it besides what Fatality suggested, sadly :[

As a general rule, I don't go offstage against Lucas unless I'm in the middle of a guaranteed combo, because one PSI magnet offstage is all it takes to destroy Falcon. I've found that edgeguarding Lucas, however, is pretty simple. When he's coming back to the stage, hog the ledge (provided he's far enough off that he can't attack you). If he tries to tether, he'll be forced into the ledgejump. He now has 2 options, go forward or go backward. If he goes forward, ledgehop knee him. If he goes backward, a Bair will do the job. If you aren't sure which he's going to do, the Uair is a safe choice. It covers the backward option really well and can set up for a combo (depending on percent) if he goes forward. If he tries to use PK Thunder, I'm not sure what the best option is. I usually just wait and see where he's gonna go and punish from there, but I'm sure there are much better options.

Good luck Lucas slaying!

 

[-Key-]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I really appreciate it. I am actually on my way to do battle with him right now, so I'll definitely let you guys know how things go. And to answer your question, Fatality, he's not Sartron.

 

[-Key-]

Alright, so I have some good news and some bad news.

Good news: I won a best of 5 set 3-1.

Bad news: After that, he messed with his controller (which was apparently causing problems) and then swiftly dismantled me to the tune of 3-0.

I think that my main problem in the second set was that I get behind and then started pressing. He definitely was playing better, but I was also playing worse. I think that I made some progress but overall I'm still held back by my own limitations as a player. I just need to keep practicing and working at it I think.

On a side note, he has Falcon as a secondary and I two stocked his Falcon twice with Lucas just to give him a little taste of his own medicine. haha

 

[Crescent Monkey]

I'm fairly certain that this matchup is fine. He might be able to chaingrab Falcon, not sure, so if he can just dont go to FD, smashville or green hill zone. Outside of that, his grab is slow, and whiffed grabs are easy punishes, He doesnt have that good of an approach outside of PK Freeze, but he isnt defensive enough to deal with a Falcon all over his face, so he wants to approach. This means he pretty much has to hit you with PK Freeze, which you should not allow him to do. Practice beating them with nair, clank them with Falcon kick when you need to, he has to space these very well for them to work. If he throws them too low you can jump over them, if he backs himself up throwing them then move in a little and gain good stage positioning. There is a range where throwing PK Freeze is risky, but you are still far enough away to not be hit by any of his moves. Try to maximize your time in that range.

 

[NWRL]

Oh hey I know Lucas you are referring to

 

[-Fatality-]

I played against an absurdly technical Lucas player yesterday at AUSOM 10, one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in PM, the matches were recorded by a friend, so you guys should definitely take a look at it once it's uploaded. It's really hard for me to describe what it was like, since it was kinda mind-blowing to watch.

 

[-Key-]

Sweet, I am really looking forward to watching that.

Also, I am happy to report that I am definitely making progress in this matchup. I played a bunch of Falcon/Lucas matches this past Friday, and the outcomes are getting much closer to being a 50-50 split now (previously I would only win by dumb luck, and that happened very rarely). I should even have some video evidence for y'all to critique within the next week or two.

 

[internetmovieguy]

The KNEE!
its the answer to all you problems.

 

[sgt. fuzz]

I watched said technical Lucas at AUSOM, and yes it was simply mesmerizing. He was from Mobile I think. Dron maybe?

 

[-Fatality-]

I watched said technical Lucas at AUSOM, and yes it was simply mesmerizing. He was from Mobile I think. Dron maybe?

Yeah, I think that's what he told me. He used the tag "Waifu" in game, I didn't actually hear our match get called out, so I can't guarantee that was his real tag.
Did we get to have any Falcon dittos? Nice to see some fellow peeps here active IRL.

 

[-Fatality-]

The videos of Dron's Lucas are up now, pretty crazy stuff, here's a vid of a friend of mine playing him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvaNjnPObJY
The vid of my Falcon against Dron are up in the video thread, along with me playing some other people there at AUSOM 10: The Banishment of Ganondorf.

 

[-Key-]

@ -Fatality- So you asked me earlier in this thread about who my Lucas opponent was. Well come to find out, he apparently played some matches against you at TO9 this past December. I'm not sure what character he used against you (probably Lucas or Diddy) but he plays with the tag TREE. Anyway, it's a weird enough coincidence that I figured I'd mention this to you in case you remembered him.

 

[-Fatality-]

I don't remember playing him, I didn't play him in bracket (I think), I must have had friendlies with him at one point I guess.

 

[-Key-]

I don't remember playing him, I didn't play him in bracket (I think), I must have had friendlies with him at one point I guess.

Yeah I don't think you played him in the bracket. And I was mistaken about Lucas/Diddy because he apparently used Falcon primarily and played some dittos/teams with you.

 

[NeonApophis]

Dron has a really cool Lucas. He just needs to multishine more since he can probably do it. And obviously he should try to optimize his combos since you can't just style on opponents with good DI, but I haven't seen him play anyone good, so maybe he already does this. He definitely has the tech skill to be one of the best Lucas players though.

 

[-Fatality-]

Dron has a really cool Lucas. He just needs to multishine more since he can probably do it. And obviously he should try to optimize his combos since you can't just style on opponents with good DI, but I haven't seen him play anyone good, so maybe he already does this. He definitely has the tech skill to be one of the best Lucas players though.

I'm super good, and there are vids of us playing Check out the video thread for it.

 

[Dron]

Dron has a really cool Lucas. He just needs to multishine more since he can probably do it. And obviously he should try to optimize his combos since you can't just style on opponents with good DI, but I haven't seen him play anyone good, so maybe he already does this. He definitely has the tech skill to be one of the best Lucas players though.

yeah, playing people that can DI and avoid my nonsense is when I start to kinda fall apart (Fatality is a good example), it also doesn't help that I haven't been playing people as consistently as I'd like ever since I started playing

our scene kinda blew up recently though, so I plan on getting on that pretty soon

p.s. sorry for hijacking thread